Everything You Need To Know About The UPCOMING RECESSION (How To Prepare)

Shaan Puri

Am trying to be intentionally out of touch in the same way that I intentionally avoid the news

Sam Parr

alright we're live what's going on

Shaan Puri

well yeah well sam

Sam Parr

yeah yeah your

Shaan Puri

My first million has become my first $100,000.

Sam Parr

your first

Shaan Puri

my last million yeah

Sam Parr

Yeah, on a good day, what you took something out of the Milk Road... I texted you this, but you didn't reply. So, in the Milk Road, my favorite part was... what was the starting amount? Was it $1,000,000 or $500? What was it? You had your portfolio.

Shaan Puri

it was actually a little bit less

Sam Parr

It was $950,000, so a $950,000 portfolio. And every day you would say what it's at compared to where it was when you took it out. What's it at now? Correct. Why'd you take it out?

Shaan Puri

I don't even want to look. We took out the prices today because... or what did we do? We did a little different thing. The crypto prices crashed over the weekend, and so we were like, "Okay, people are definitely going to want to know..."

Sam Parr

what's happening what's

Shaan Puri

happening all that stuff so no not saturday monday we we sent it today

Sam Parr

no you sent a weekend weekend version

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that was just a different... that was just like a special edition. Today, we sent out a piece about crypto crashing. The weekend one was about Jack Dorsey because he announced something called Web 5. We found this hilarious because it's like Web 3 is still being debated as even a thing, and he just skipped Web 4 and went straight to Web 5. People are like, "What the hell is this?" So, we explained what the hell it is. But today, crypto is down like 20% or something crazy. Ethereum is around $1,000 or something like that right now.

Sam Parr

so yeah dude it's brutal

Shaan Puri

The $1,000,000 portfolio. We basically started this right when I started The Milk Road. I was like, "What will be entertaining to get people hooked to subscribe?" I thought, "Oh, I know! I'll put up $1,000,000 and I'll say, 'Watch! I will publicly invest this money and let's try to turn it into $10,000,000.'" It became a mission: turning $1,000,000 into $10,000,000 through crypto investing. To be honest, we didn't even do that much. We didn't make very many moves. It just started with $1,000,000 worth of ETH, and I think we made like two investments maybe since then. Just because I've been busy with The Milk Road, building the podcast, and my other business and stuff like that, it's not like I've been super active. But ETH is down like 66%, and all of crypto is down like that or worse. So the portfolio is brutal. It's like, you know, $1,000,000 is currently $250,000 or $300,000, is my guess based on where we're at.

Sam Parr

where's your head at are you freaking out or are you still calm like you always are

Shaan Puri

I'm still calm yeah so so this is so it's a funny little like story I guess I don't know why I said it's funny there's actually no humor at all in it but it's interesting how how I feel about it ben flew in so ben flew in last night not producer ben business partner ben so business partner ben flies in last night we're he's gonna be here for the week we're gonna like work on a bunch of stuff and like basically like you know from the time he took off the time he landed like our whole business has changed and what what has changed is basically like well aside from our own personal net worths you know going down and the milk road public portfolio going down like we have just entered like the whole economy has entered a recession and crypto has entered for sure like a big downswing bear market crash whatever you wanna call it and it's it's not gonna like just bounce right back and all is gonna be like fun and dandy again like if you think about this time last year not this time last year but let's say like 6 to 12 months ago it felt like money was raining from the skies like you know I invested in a bunch of tech stocks everything was up every day everything was up zoom has tripled in price and amazon is up because everybody's ordering all their shit online and like every company that we invested in private startup was like raising money at crazy valuations and literally like there's this phrase of money raining on fools money was raining on fools and like nfts were selling you know nfts were selling for ridiculous prices and it's so crazy that like you know on a dime it feels like the whole world has changed and everybody's mindset mentality has also changed which is that like now it feels almost impossible to make money it's like well where do I go make money the stock market is down brutally crypto has crashed every business is now laying off people or freezing hiring on top of that you know companies are cutting their budgets and ad spend so if you're if your business relied on ads you know that's getting cut and so now you know money was drained on 4th and now money is being drained from from smart people too

Sam Parr

You're seeing advertisers run... I tweeted out, "What's going on in the ad world?" because I'm not in it anymore. You're seeing it go away.

Shaan Puri

Not this fast, but yeah, like, you know, the first shooter drop was kind of like consumer brands, like D2C brands and whatnot. They were the first, I would say, in the last three months to start reducing spending. Whereas before, it was like, "How do I spend more?" Then there were companies that were like, "Well, it's hard to have a big ad budget when you're laying off a bunch of people." Now that they have gone into hiring freezes or layoffs, their ad budgets are certainly tightening up. We don't see it this month; this month's an all-time high in ad revenue. But I'm sure in the next three months, those ad budgets are going to constrict. They'd be crazy not to. In our e-commerce business, we see sales; this month is good, but you can see the tightening happening. People just are not getting "stimmy" checks that they can go spend on electronics, toys, clothes, and all this good stuff. So consumers just start slowing down their spending. All these things are interlinked, right? When the consumer spends less, the business makes less money. Then it has less money to hire, less money to advertise, and then the platforms get less revenue. They do the same thing, and this is all interconnected. It's interesting to me because I have not lived through a bear market as a founder or investor. In 2008, I was a sophomore in college or something like that. I don't know, you were probably saying something; you were like a sophomore in college or something like that, right? I don't know.

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

freshman or sophomore in college

Sam Parr

I graduated high school in '08, so basically this is our first time as money-earning professionals that we've experienced anything like this. Yeah, dude, it is crazy.

Shaan Puri

I'll give you kind of my mentality because you said, "Are you freaking out?" My mentality was like, definitely. I've had thoughts of like, "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit." But then I sort of thought, well, the thought can arise, but I'm not consumed by it. I definitely had a day where I was just like, kept checking prices and kept doom scrolling Twitter. But I don't know if I pride myself on my mental fitness. It's like, well, this is the time to be fit. When stuff that's hard happens, this is the time to use all those tools you've been building up, all those muscles you've been building about seeing things in a way that actually serves you. So for me, I'm like, immediately... I'll show you this thing. So Ben flies in, and last night at midnight, we're basically sitting in my office, and we wrote this thing at the top. I don't know if you can see this; it's like unfocused, but it says, "How a loser's brain would work right now." Loser brain. It's like, loser brain says this... We all like, you know, like "Rich Dad Poor Dad."

Sam Parr

yeah yeah

Shaan Puri

In my head, I have this thing called "loser brain" and "winner brain." It's like a loser's brain will bring these thoughts up and bring its attention to these things, and a winner's brain will have these... So we basically wrote down all the scary thoughts. It's like, you know, and so I was like, "Ben, just rattle them off." I'll read you some of these if you're interested, but... Well, we did this exercise in order to reframe our thinking.

Sam Parr

Everything that I think about right now, and I've been calm about it because I'm... you know, everyone gives me a hard time that I'm conservative, and it's kind of working out right now. But even still, I'm down a significant amount. My fear is always rooted in like, "I'm gonna run out." I'm like, "I'm homeless." Do you have those fears of like, "I'm gonna run out?"

Shaan Puri

No, because if I ask you, do you actually think you're going to run out? No, but I will. Sam Parr, do you think you're going to go broke? Which is a combination of you... you got a lot of money still. And secondly, you always have, like, your core skill is the ability to make and sell products that people are going to want.

Sam Parr

Well, I'm not saying it's logical. I'm saying it's like my fear of flying. I understand that I'm far more likely to fall off a set of stairs, get hit in the car, or go down in a plane, but I'm still... it's such a deep-rooted issue. I think it's actually deep-rooted in a lot of people. It's like, "I just... I worked so long for this thing, and it's gonna run out." Joseph Kennedy, JFK's dad, I read his biography. He was like the 8th or 9th richest person in America when he was alive, and I think he was worth $100,000,000. He said, "I would give away half of my money now if it meant I would be guaranteed to have the other half forever and grow at a very conservative but consistent rate." He was like, "I'm just so afraid of losing everything that I worked for." That loss aversion is often... like, dude, that's so interesting. It's way harder.

Shaan Puri

would you do that by the way would you take that trade

Sam Parr

No, no, I wouldn't. But, no, no, I was tempted. I think that the world... So, he said that probably in 1920. I think that I still am bullish on America, and I still think that over the next 100 years, it's going to average 7 or 8% a year, and I'll be okay. So, I'm okay with that. No, I wouldn't do it. I still think... Everyone talks about America like, "Oh, empires only last 250 years, and we're there." In my head, I'm like, "Do you think that we're going to go to zero?" Like, England has been around for 2000 years, and they're not number one or number two, but being number seven's pretty good too. Do you know what I mean? So, whatever people talk about, like America's going to collapse, I'm like, well...

Shaan Puri

Like, wait, they still have a dude standing in front of a building all day like a statue. You can go take pictures of him, right? So, like, life can't be that bad there. They got the guy with a fuzzy black hat on.

Sam Parr

It's not that bad. Like, I wouldn't mind being Germany or France. They were the best for 2000 years, and now they're not number 1 or number 2, but you know, I'll be the Red Sox. It's okay, it's not a big deal. So anyway, I'm pretty long-term bullish on America. So no, I wouldn't give away half the [wealth/power/influence, context unclear].

Shaan Puri

Italians... Italians are still eating pasta. Are the Spaniards still taking naps in the middle of the day? Like, yeah, you don't need to be number one to live a very sweet life.

Sam Parr

yeah yeah yeah yeah so like it's not like I'm I'm happy

Shaan Puri

So, I want to describe this because I think it is the main topic. I had a bunch of random ideas and stuff like that, and we can get to those, but I do think the main topic is probably where most people are at. Our audience is, I would say, heavily entrepreneurial and/or works in tech. If you work in tech, you're likely to have a lot of your net worth invested in either the stock of the company that you're being paid in, or you might be investing in the crypto markets or the stock markets. Most likely, you have taken a bath of something between 30% to 60% of your net worth in the span of five months. A lot of that money has evaporated. Whatever plan you had for buying a house, you might be thinking, "Oh wait, a lot of my money is gone." The interest rates have gone up, and you might be reconsidering having another kid. You start to reassess a bunch of things in your life, especially because for the last ten years, if you're around our age, like in your early thirties, all you've seen since you graduated is numbers going up. So, it’s kind of jarring to suddenly see numbers go down. At least, that's my perspective. Did I accurately label one part of our audience?

Sam Parr

Yeah, in particular, the last two years have been like up, up, up, up, up... like crazy. Yes, that is our audience.

Shaan Puri

And then you have business owners who are like, "Great! This thing I've been working so hard at every day for the last X years..." *Long silence.* "Okay, here's the bad news. Now your valuation is cut in half. Your customers are likely going to start tightening up and paying you less money. You're probably going to have to do some layoffs, trimming somewhere in your business cost structure. And there's a, I don't know, 30 to 40% chance you go out of business in the next year and a half, on top of whatever your normal risk of going out of business was." So, like, great! You know, we have the risk of going to zero. That's a kind of stressful thought. On both sides, you have this kind of stressful, depressing thought. And I would say, if you're an investor, you know all the same thoughts... times two. So where does that leave you? You're either in a puddle of despair or you're going to be like, "Okay, I need to kind of like giddy up." I have to realize the environment has changed. If that changed, what needs to change in my world? I think there's a pretty healthy exercise to go down of like, "What needs to change in my world?" I would say that's the productive conversation. It's not enough to just be like, "I'm just going to close my eyes and think happy thoughts and be positive." It's like, "Well, I need to be realistic. A lot of things have changed. I probably need to change with it." But also, do I want to sit here and feel depressed or hopeless? No. Therefore, I have to like... you might have that thought of, "I could lose it all," or "This could all go to zero," or "All my hard work is gone," or whatever those thoughts are. But in my mind, it's like I need to reprogram my brain to operate in this new world. I need to consciously reprogram my brain.

Sam Parr

That I have to... well, what I'm... my belief is that I do have that fear of it all going away. My reaction is not to quit, or even to spend less. My reaction is, "Yeah, it might go away, but let's get after it! Let's go get more!" To me, it's a very stressful situation. But when I actually think about it logically, I'm like, "It's not that big a deal." However, I think that whenever I look back at the things I've made that have been successful, it typically happens when there aren't a lot of alternatives. It's like, "Oh man, this needs to work!"

Shaan Puri

I do my best work when my back is against the wall. That's one thing that a lot of people believe, and it's a belief that can serve you well when things get hard.

Sam Parr

So, it is stressful, but I think I said this a while ago: I believe I'm more likely to have a slow and steady success, whereas you're more likely to become a billionaire in like five years or lose it all. You take a lot of risks. You could become a billionaire and then lose it all. You take way more risks. That's why I'm interested in hearing your perspective on this right now, because you're all in on a couple of things that just so happen to be getting hit the hardest.

Shaan Puri

So, what would be fun to talk about? What would be interesting to talk about? Like, you know, we can go into: - Why we think it's happening - What are you going to do about it - We can go to Shittenfield Band Where do you want to go with this?

Sam Parr

I don't want to go into why it's happening, but I was thinking about this. We're in this text group with all those guys, and they're all like... it's just a bunch of supposedly smart people. No, they actually are smart. But what's crazy is that America has been around for hundreds of years, and capitalism has been around for thousands of years. Yet, the smartest people don't agree on the cause or the solution, and they can't predict what happens. That's kind of interesting to me because, at your business, you have a pipeline and you have a funnel. When you build a good business, you're like, "Alright, there's a 90% chance that blank is gonna happen." I understand that business. America is kind of like a business, just with 330 million people and a weird corporate structure where you can't really do whatever. You have to get all these checks and balances and all this stuff done. But isn't it kind of fascinating that we still don't entirely understand the cause or the solution to a lot of these different problems?

Shaan Puri

That's always been very unsatisfying. It's like the stock market goes up or down, and then there's this race to make up the cause. It's like, okay, so you're saying every time that happens, this will happen? No? Okay, so you're saying that you could have foreseen this? Well, it's like... what it is, is sort of this backwards application of narratives. It's not that there was no cause or that there is no true narrative; it's just that it's not easy or clear to see what the true cause is and what the true narratives are among the many possible explanations and reasonings you could have. Right? Like, did it rain today because I did this dance, or did it rain today because the clouds have heavy precipitation? And why do they have that? Well, because of the changes in weather and whatever else. You know, it's very hard to separate the people who think things are happening because they did something. They think it's raining because they did a funny dance.

Sam Parr

It's just that we can predict certain human behavior relatively reliably. Like, you know the whole Pavlov's dog thing? I know that if I do this, this, and this, most of the time a creature is going to react by doing X, Y, and Z. It just kind of has always baffled me. I'm like, well, why can't we just take all this input, put it together, and figure out what the solution or what the cause is? That's always baffled me. It also freaks me out that so many people who I view as smart say opposite things. Do you follow Zero Hedge on Twitter? Yeah, so Zero Hedge is like this pretty hardcore... I don't know if "libertarian" is the best way to describe it, but they're pretty much always like doom and gloom. Every article is written by the guy from Fight Club. What's his name? Tyler Durden.

Shaan Puri

tyler durden yeah

Sam Parr

And every article is written by that guy, and their Twitter profile... they only tweet in caps. Every tweet is in caps lock, and they...

Shaan Puri

tweet yeah

Sam Parr

They tweet the scariest stuff all the time, and it's incredibly easy to believe and trust for some reason. I don't know what it is about emotion, but I just automatically assume that the worst is actually the truth. I've had to unfollow that. Did you ever... do you follow that handle?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, for sure. I would not unfollow it, but I totally get what you mean. If you follow Zero Hedge, you're just like, "Wow, all of the big people in charge are sort of idiots." All of the stuff that's going up is overvalued, overinflated, and over everything. No matter how bad it is, it could get worse. Don't think that this is the end of the pain. People have said this about those who predict crashes and recessions. It's sort of like, "This guy's predicted a recession 13 out of the last three times it's happened." If you're predicting a crash every year, you'll be seen as a genius because you predicted it for three straight years. Then, when it happens, well, you weren't wrong; you were just a little early. During all those years when things are going up, you're just sort of early. Somebody said this the other day: in general, in a bear market, it pays to be a pessimist, and in a bull market, it sort of pays to be an optimist. Someone who's always a pessimist or always an optimist is not going to have long-term success. The ability to shift gears between optimism and pessimism, and knowing when to do what, is a highly underrated trait that very few people have.

Sam Parr

Let me tell you what I'm doing with the... I don't exactly have a business. I don't really have like a "business business," but I have a small version of that that might become a proper business. Let me explain what I'm doing, and then you can tell me what you're going to do. Basically, my reasoning—keep in mind I'm like a... I feel so stupid when it comes to this finance and economy stuff. I really don't understand anything. But my belief is basically like, well, now is the bottom. I actually discovered this with The Hustle, where I was creating something that people kind of dismissed or thought couldn't work. But then it takes like 4, 5, or 6 years to get to a substantial business. By that time, people took it seriously, and I was the biggest and the best. Therefore, I could get acquired or was making a lot of revenue. So with the thing I'm working on now, my logic is: well, now is the time to work really, really hard. It might suck for 1, 2, or 3 years, but when things start changing a little bit, that's actually around the time where I'm going to have a team, I'll have processes, I'll have systems, and I'll have product-market fit. Then we could accelerate really hard because we've already done the hard work during the hard times. Is that kind of how you're looking at it too, a little bit?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, definitely. I think that's definitely the case. So, what I said was, I kind of had three things to remind myself. I said, number one, this is a good chance to remember what I truly believe. First, I needed to calm my nerves because if I'm in a sort of fight or flight state—if I'm in a state of panic, anxiety, and stress—I already know my decision-making is not very good. My decision-making is, at best, rushed, and at worst, it's operating from a place of fear. Therefore, all I'm trying to do is minimize pain and never gain any advantage out of it; just minimize the amount of disadvantage I'm experiencing in the short term. So, my first step is to get out of a fight or flight mindset. That's where I first check myself. I'm like, "Well, what do I really believe?" I truly believe this in the bottom of my heart. I don't mean this in an arrogant way, but I truly believe that if I look at my life over a 10 to 20 year span...

Shaan Puri

From here, right? I'm in my early thirties, so by the time I'm 40 or 50, I think I'm going to have more money than I'll ever know what to do with. To me, that's like the spoiler of my life. It's like if I flip to the end of the book, I'm like, "Oh, it ends happily ever after." Yeah, I truly believe that. I truly believe that I'm just going to keep doing business projects. I'm going to keep investing in things, and on the whole, I'm going to end up so far ahead. Even if any individual investment or any individual business project doesn't work out in a 10 to 20 year span, when I check the score at the end of the game, I'm going to be ahead. I'm going to have more money than I know what to do with in my personal life. I truly believe that about myself. So if I knew that was the ending, then there's no real reason to panic. If I know that's what the score is at the end of Q4, then it doesn't really matter what happens in Q1. I should for sure be playing and doing my best, but it doesn't matter if I fall behind or if I lose a little bit of money, or if the score doesn't go my way for the next 12 to 18 months. That's okay. So, it's like I gotta remember: do I believe that or not? Alright, I do believe that. Then chill... first, chill the fuck out.

Sam Parr

Okay, that's like stage 1. Wait, let me tell you something though, really quick. To let me be the huge pessimist here, I believe that is true about you as well. I believe that is true about a bunch of people we know. But here's the thing that I think about all the time: I don't want to have more money than I know what to do with when I'm 70. I want to enjoy it now, when I'm young and can experience all this crazy stuff. I don't want it then; I want it now. By then, I don't care. I'm okay with having way less. I want it today. I want the freedom now, when I'm healthy and can go do whatever I want. That's why I freak out.

Shaan Puri

I'm with you, but it's **sooner the better**. It's not **now or never**. So, **sooner the better** is very different than **now or never**. Okay, we got a **sooner the better** mindset. We're going to take a bunch of shots and take a bunch of action now to increase the odds that it comes sooner rather than later. The second thing is, does my day-to-day actually change because my stock portfolio, my crypto portfolio, or my net worth changed? Right? Like, your net worth is not a figment of your imagination, but it's sort of like a figment of your ego or your perceived sense of safety. In reality, the stock market goes down, the current market goes down, but it doesn't actually change my day-to-day lifestyle or comfort based on where I'm at. For some people, it's going to change that, but for me, it's not going to change that. So that also helps take the edge off, which allows me to think with a clear head. Then I start thinking, "Alright..."

Sam Parr

you're not changing you're you're not changing your spending pattern

Shaan Puri

Oh, like in a small way, but nothing that... my happiness on a day-to-day level doesn't change whether I, you know, have a chef or not. You know, like, "Oh cool, it's cooking season then." Right? Okay, cool. I'm buying... I went to Trader Joe's yesterday instead of Whole Foods. Yeah, I shift some small decisions, but like, that's cool. Trader Joe's is sick. Like, you know, who cares? Those sorts of things don't actually sway how I feel. Wait, I was gonna get another card...

Sam Parr

did you actually do that

Shaan Puri

I guess I'll hold off on that

Sam Parr

you're doing trader joe's now

Shaan Puri

Trader Joe's. Yeah, like literally. But again, I like Trader Joe's. This is not a big problem for me because I drove four extra blocks and went to Trader Joe's, you know? Like, cool. So, you know, and again, not everybody is fortunate where these are their situations. I get that. But I'd like to believe that, in general, my day-to-day happiness quotient is not so weak that it's dependent on these material things. Or, you know, sometimes I get stuck in traffic. Well, guess what?

Sam Parr

I don't know man

Shaan Puri

it's a radio baby it's a concert

Sam Parr

Right, like a big ass Honeycrisp apple from Whole Foods is not trivial, if you ask me. Mhmm, yeah, but I...

Shaan Puri

I don't know. I've always had this feeling of keeping myself honest, which is what I want. I want to have a **fat mansion** and be eating a feast with all my friends and family at the table, laughing and joking. That's my ideal. But what's even better than that? What's even better than having the sick mansion with the feast and all your friends and family around you, laughing at the great joke you just cracked? Okay, that's what I thought was the peak. But the actual peak of the peak is being the type of person who can get stuck in an elevator and still have fun. Because then you're invincible. What's better than invincible mode? It's like you could put me in the shittiest situation, and I'm still going to be laughing. So now what? I don't really have anything to fear because my feelings aren't dependent on having all those items. Alright, even though I prefer them. So, yeah, I think I do make some shifts in my lifestyle, but it's not like to me I'm like, "Oh cool, it's a new season." Like, it's tightening up season. It's like getting shredded for the summer for your body. It's like, cool, I'm also going to go and cancel a bunch of subscriptions I don't care about because it'll make me feel good. I'm putting a healthy amount of discipline in. I kind of accrued a bunch of excess fat when it was one season, and now it's time to cleanse. Like, good, where am I spending that I don't really want to be spending? You know, where are we advertising that's inefficient? Who's on our payroll that's not really pulling their weight? Good, let's get rid of all that weight. Now it's a **spring cleaning**, baby! Right? So it's like that's the next step for me. It's like you do have an actual spring cleaning and be excited about it.

Sam Parr

I've been using Truebill. This is not an ad, but have you seen it? Yeah, it's called Truebill. I bought the $100 subscription. Have you ever used that? You know what that has?

Shaan Puri

I've used it, but I've used stuff like it. Yeah, it basically looks at your subscriptions and suggests what to cut. How does it know what you're not using?

Sam Parr

or how

Shaan Puri

to unpack them

Sam Parr

I didn't realize that Sarah and I both had Amazon Prime subscriptions. Apparently, I thought I canceled one of them. It catches that, and I can also see how much I'm spending every month. For example, it will say, "You have an upcoming $300 subscription coming up," and I'm like, "Oh, that's my trainer." But there have been times where I'm like, "Oh damn, I thought I didn't know I had Xbox Live or whatever the hell that thing's called." It's a $29 thing, and it's coming up. You can cancel it, but what they do is if you need to cancel something that you want to call about, they'll do it for you.

Shaan Puri

they'll do it for you

Sam Parr

it's pretty cool

Shaan Puri

Yeah, and so that's the other piece of this. Me, Ben, and Safon were hanging out this morning. We all hung out together and were getting our coffee for our team, which is the Milk Road team. We were like, "Okay, let's just make a real list real quick." Let's assume for a second that these market conditions last for the next, let's call it, 18 months. So, let's assume the stock market will bounce back from whatever low it finds, but it's not going to be like, "Alright, baby, we're back!" Everything just keeps going up. We all printed money, right? That's not going to happen. Let's say for the next cycle, the same thing with crypto. Let's say that companies are not giving out raises or hiring as much. Let's say that customers tighten up their spending, so revenues go down across the board. Cool, let's assume all that to be true. Do we also believe that some things are going to die, some things are going to survive, and some things are going to thrive? Truebill is something that thrives during a time like this, right? Because it's helping you bring some austerity or financial discipline into your life. So, people are going to want that product more, and they're going to thrive. What else is going to thrive? Maybe short sellers are going to thrive right now because they've been betting that the market's going to go down, and sure enough, it has. Who else is going to thrive? You know, the guy who's been sitting on a bunch of cash on the sidelines is like, "Oh, actually, there are things that I think are valuable businesses, like Facebook and Amazon, that are trading at all-time lows in the last decade." Now is the time to dollar-cost average into these companies.

Sam Parr

How about these assets? How about Moiz Ali saying in the interview you did with him that he had $50,000,000 in cash? He was like, "I've just been waiting." It's like, "Oh, okay. Now I understand what you... Now I understand your..." Yeah.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. I remember just as a small anecdote, maybe 7 years ago, or 6 years ago, something like that. I don't know, I bought Bitcoin for the first time. I think I bought $10 of Bitcoin back when it was around $600 or $700. The next week, it goes up to $800, and I'm like, "There we go, baby! Just as I wanted. Buy the thing, price goes up. Love it when they stick to the script." Then, I think 2 weeks later, or something like that—I don't know, I'm making up timelines here—but very soon after that, Bitcoin crashed to like $200. So, my $800 was now... you know, I lost whatever 75%. I don't do public math, but you get the idea. I lost a bunch of money in that process. At that time, I was making $150,000 a year. I think my salary was actually $100,000. I made either $120,000 or $160,000. So, dude...

Sam Parr

I remember when that was, and I remember you told me you made $150,000 a year in salary. I was like, "Oh my God, you're the richest person I know!"

Shaan Puri

yeah I was the richest person I knew at that time so I was like and you know and actually like in reality I was underpaid for you know what I was doing but in my head I was I was like wow don't say anything they might realize how much money they're paying you you know like that was like I was so honored to be making that kind of money so and like I feel good that I was honored like it feels it's it's great to feel honored at what you're getting that's actually an awesome feeling to be in versus consistently dissatisfied but like I remember it went down to 200 I walked into the office and I was like bitching about the like the crash of I was like my bitcoin because like you know I'm very public when I invest in things which makes me often look like a dummy but occasionally makes me look very smart and I was like oh guys my bitcoin purchase remember my my my I forgot what I put in 10 or 20 grand something like that I was like it's it's like all gone now and furcon was like he was like this is great right like you know do you like do you believe less in bitcoin just like than you did 2 weeks ago like did you learn some new information like besides the price changing like did you learn any new information about bitcoin that makes you less bullish on bitcoin I was like no like barely knew anything to begin with and like nothing changed and he's like cool so like if you bought now you could bring your average cost basis down to like 400 and I was like oh like yes that's true and I went home and I did it and I was like I like I remember going from like just what I thought was the only response I thought the only response is bitch and moan and then he kinda pointed out well like did your actual conviction change or just the valuation I was like right well I don't know my conviction didn't change not not to say I had a ton of like very well thought through conviction at the time but like it didn't change and so I did I I lowered my cost basis to 400 now as bitcoin bitcoin today is trading at like I don't know 23100 or 23,000 or something like that but like let's say on the average last year it's been like 30 k so that that's the difference between basically like an 8 x and a 4 x in your return was that one conversation during that one time and I've heard this many many times before which is like you know fortunes are built during these bear market times and it's really for two reasons number 1 if you start a company you're gonna be like the lean mean cockroach you're not gonna have too much competition and you're gonna build up your cons your kind of team and consumer base now so that as you know as the tide lifts all the boats you're the biggest fucking boat that's what happened to you with the hustle and like that's what happened to many companies that started during you know let's say the the recessions or bear markets the same thing happens with investing it's like well the goal if your strategy with investing is to only buy in when things are going up and then like sell or do nothing when prices go down like you have inadvertently subscribed to a buy high sell low strategy and like you know I think we know that that's not a winning strategy and so like you know well then what's the opposite of that the opposite of that is to if you have conviction or if there are good assets that are under priced temporarily like there's a dislocation because of panic and fear like those are the times where you're supposed to buy in very hard to do so because your mentality is like like I just lost a ton of money I don't feel like going and putting more at risk but in reality we kinda know that is the right thing to do for the if you could pick assets properly dude what

Sam Parr

I've been learning about this, and I tweeted this out. I was like, "I'd rather just earn more income and build more companies than worry about these losses." So, let me... can I... let's shift a little bit. Can I tell you about a company? Remember how you said I find these things that are kind of interesting and weird? I found another one, and I want to tell you about it. Alright, have you heard of this conference called Shoptalk?

Shaan Puri

Shop talk... No, but the name sounds familiar. One second, let me go to this. So, start to describe it. Let me see if I have heard of this.

Sam Parr

Alright, so it's a conference that I think you would have been involved in because it's for eCommerce people. But it's not just like D to C entrepreneurs; it's like Shopify as well as every Shopify plug-in, as well as retail brands. For example, the founder or the CEO of J.Crew might go and talk on a panel with someone at Stripe. I don't know, just like online commerce but for retail stuff. Does that make sense? But it's like, so we started...

Shaan Puri

the use case so who who goes I'm a I'm a ecom store so should I go to this

Sam Parr

Probably not, but if you're like, you would go and speak, and executives at Gap would be like, "Oh, these young startups, here's what they're doing. Maybe we should consider changing our strategy to X, Y, and Z." Or, "We're making apps for this. We're making software for this ecosystem. Let's go and talk to other apps, and maybe we could do business together." Does that make sense?

Shaan Puri

let let me ask you slightly slightly differently there's like kind of like trade shows or like in

Sam Parr

conferences where it's okay

Shaan Puri

it's more like a trade show gotcha

Sam Parr

It's a trade show, alright. But here's where things get interesting. The guy who started it, I linked to his LinkedIn down there in the document. I think his name's Jonathan Wiener. He has this co-founder, an Indian guy, but I forget the Indian guy's name. So, listen to their background, and let me tell you what they're doing now and why this is so fascinating. I linked an article from Vox, and it said the guys behind the Money 2020 conference want to do the same thing but for commerce. So, what that will explain is basically this guy Jonathan and his partner, they started a company. By the way, I saw you smirk when I said the guy's last name; that was hilarious.

Shaan Puri

I was trying so hard to come up with a good joke, and I just... you know, my filter in my brain was like, "You know what? Not worth the risk."

Hubspot

this data is wrong every freaking time

Hubspot

Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated.

Hubspot

Woah! I can see the client's whole history: calls, support tickets, emails. And here's a task from three days ago that I totally missed.

Sam Parr

hubspot grow better so this guy and his partner jonathan wiener and his and his indian partner so it's like you and you and me like weiner and the brown guy so this guy they had an ad tech company as well as a payment software business that they sold for 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars and then oddly they went and started a conference and it was called money 2020 which was like a fintech payment processors trade show business and within 2 years they scaled it to like 30 or 25,000,000 in revenue with 10,000,000 in profit and they sold it for a $100,000,000 right when they sold it they went and started the same thing and they called it shop talk and they did it for commerce and they sold that for over a $100,000,000 and they sold both money 2020 and shop talk to 2 different publicly traded companies so all these numbers that I'm saying you can actually go and look at the numbers and like verify the acquisition price as well as the revenue now I noticed that one of the founders spun off and he's doing a different thing called like the fintech meetup or something involving fintech and then the other guy is doing one called health it's pronounced health it's spelled h l t h.com and he's doing this a a trade show business for health care and they're basically doing the same strategy every single time and if you go to all three of their of their conference websites and you click the about page they have these really cool cartoons about cartoons instead of like headshots of each employee they just do cartoons they've done that for every single about page so they're more likely than not like hiring like the same people the same graphic designers the because they're not compete yeah their non compete probably says like look you can't create anything in the fintech space anymore you can't create a thing in the commerce space anymore and they're like alright let's do health let's do this let's do that and it's so interesting that they're getting into conference and trade show businesses as opposed to software and they've crushed it they are crushing it and they don't raise money and they just like it's like every 3 years they start something and sell it for a $100,000,000 and it's the same thing and they've done it 2 or 3 times now isn't that crazy

Shaan Puri

This is amazing that you've done it again, Sam! You have done it again, dude. I love this! In fact, I remember you telling me about Money 2020 a little while back because you've always been interested in conferences, trade shows, and businesses from the Hustle Con days. Every time you told me about these, I was consistently blown away by how much money they make. Now, what do you think is the playbook to do this? Because, like, for example, well, this is kind of in transparency—we've talked about this with The Milk Road—there's a lot of money and a lot of moving parts. There are people who have some interest in this, whether it's Wall Street people who want to get educated on this stuff, you know, let's call it like mutual funds, hedge funds, bankers, whatever. Then there are crypto people, VCs, and all these different professionals. There are tons of conferences, right? So it's not like it's some uncompetitive space. But what are these guys doing that's better or different? I don't believe most conference businesses are scaling this fast or selling for this much. So what’s their playbook compared to how most people do it? Do you know?

Sam Parr

a little bit so the misconception with a lot of these

Shaan Puri

make some conjecture make some guesses because of course you don't know exactly

Sam Parr

And I've tried to deconstruct it just based on the outside. The misconception about conferences is that you need cool speakers and people come to watch content. As I've studied these guys, read their quotes, and figured out exactly how they do it, I realized that the real money—like the $20,000,000 to $40,000,000 a year money—is not necessarily from a conference. It's a **three-day transactional event**. You're creating eBay or you're creating Main Street with stores on the street and renting it out. You're creating that, but it just so happens that it's going to happen in three days. So, a year's worth of business is going to happen in three days. What you have to think about is that your speakers are just the bait to get the right people to come. Once a certain group of the right people is coming, the rest of the right people will follow. They're justifying all of it for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that they say, "Shit, our competitor is there; we have to be there." That's a really big thing. I've talked to my friend who runs Blockworks, that other crypto media site, and they have this huge crypto business. He said, "Man, it's pretty crazy. If [blank company] is coming, other companies are like, 'Oh, we gotta come! Can we get a better booth than them?'" That's a really common thing. The second, and more logical, reason is, "Alright, look, if we're going to buy this $100,000 booth, we gotta close all these deals. Who's going to be there? What shot callers are going to be there?" We have to do a really good job of making transactions happen. So, that's the really big thing. You have to realize that. There's this guy named Sheldon Adelson. Do you know who that is?

Shaan Puri

yeah he's like the vegas casino guy right or is that his cousin

Sam Parr

Yeah, he's a mean as *fuck* old billionaire. He's known for being like a huge asshole, and he's worth like $20 billion or $40 billion.

Shaan Puri

job of the hunt looking guy

Sam Parr

Yeah, like he looks like this and he thinks that weed is like the end of the world. So he buys all these ads about how weed is... you remember those commercials? Like, "Julie used to care about stuff, now she just smokes weed all day." And then, you know, it's like someone melted the couch.

Shaan Puri

this is your egg this is your brain on weed and it's like cracks an egg yeah

Sam Parr

It was like... they used to have these commercials with someone melting into the couch. They'd say, "She used to go for runs all the time, now she just sits and watches TV." Anyway, he's this huge anti-weed guy, but he's this like 90-year-old man. I think I forget what he owns, but it's like the largest... he basically...

Shaan Puri

This guy definitely just had a bad weed experience. He definitely smoked weed in college and like... beat his pants. He got made fun of for it. There's gotta be some deep-rooted issues.

Sam Parr

I looked it up existential

Shaan Puri

angst what is it

Sam Parr

So, it is serious. His kid, I think, became a drug addict, and he thought... this guy grouped weed into the same category as all that other bullshit, which I think is crazy. But he basically started this event called Comdex, which eventually was acquired for $1,000,000,000 by SoftBank. It became what's known as the Consumer Electronics Show (CES). I read all these old articles about him, and he goes, "You know, you're in the conference business, and now you're in the real estate business building up the Las Vegas Strip. What are you doing?" He responds, "Well, the conference business is the real estate business. What I learned early on was I gotta get people and foot traffic to my event, and then I'm just selling real estate at a crazy high square footage. It's the same thing." That's why he's into real estate now. He basically built up all these hotels. I forget all the casinos he owns; there are like three big Vegas casinos, and he owns one of the biggest ones. Anyway, these events are rooted in real estate and foot traffic, and that's really how you do it. The second thing is, it's gotta be B2B. Of course, a TED Talk is like the coolest thing out there, but, you know, people coming to hear talks about why sleep matters or how to cure malaria... that's unfortunately not where the money is if your name is anything but Ted. So, if you're anyone else but Ted, don't do these sexy things. Do boring B2B. We're here to get some deals done, and we're gonna sell you some shit. You know, it's a bunch of white dudes in tight blue jeans, brown leather shoes, and tucked-in collared shirts—just like, you know, sales pros. That's where the money is.

Shaan Puri

At least 40% of participants must have a tucked-in button-up shirt or polo. You know, like half the jokes need to be about their wife. Something, something complaining about their wife. Then, if you said "the old ball and chain," you'd get a default smirk from anybody. You know, like their badge needs to be semi-tucked in under the belly. That's who you need at these conferences for this to work.

Sam Parr

Yeah, and if you don't have a **Tucker** in your crew, you're out. You're just not part of this. You have to have a **Tucker** in your crew, right?

Shaan Puri

Right, so there's like a dog, like a bomb-sniffing dog, that's just looking for tuckers in line. Yeah, it's like there's not enough tuckers in this queue. Shut it down! Yeah, so that's when it's a German Shepherd.

Sam Parr

That's where it seems the money is. It's about joining these industries that are fast-growing and thinking like a real estate person.

Shaan Puri

And how do they get people to buy these tickets? So, like, I'm assuming they're basically selling... or is their model that you sell tickets for a couple thousand each and then you sell sponsor booths for, you know, tens of thousands each? Something like that? Is that the model?

Sam Parr

I think what they do is interesting. I went and looked at their revenue. In year one, their revenue is around $2 to $3 million. Then, in year two, it's about $12 million, and in year three, it's around $30 million. Based on that, along with a bunch of marketing materials and their headcount on their "About" page, I think what they do is give away a lot in the first year. In the first year, you're just trying not to lose your shirt. I also think that when they sell sponsorships—which can actually be easier to sell—they only give away a certain number of tickets. For the rest of the attendees, they have to purchase tickets. Once you get a certain number of sponsors, it’s kind of like how we used to host events. We would purposely have as many speakers as possible because each speaker would bring around 10 people. So, I think it's kind of like that, where each sponsored company automatically brings a small crew. That is how they actually do it. However, they do spend a lot on marketing based on their team size.

Shaan Puri

Big of a work, you know that Spider-Man meme? The Spider-Man meme where they're all pointing at each other like the other Spider-Man. It's that, but just sponsors at the booth being like, "Buy my thing!" No, "You buy my thing!" Yeah, I'm here to sell, not to buy.

Sam Parr

It's a circular economy of just... you know, buying one another's crap. But anyway, it's kind of cool what they're doing. I think this is... I think events can be a headache, but there's a way that you can build it [successfully].

Shaan Puri

What I would do, by the way, if I was international, is study these guys. I would do the exact same thing in Europe. Then, I would do the exact same thing in Australia, India, China, and South Africa. Wherever you are, there is a version of this that can be built locally that is not going to be competitive with these guys. They're basically like this is a cloneable template, in my opinion. I'm sure it takes good execution; I'm not saying that. But I think this is a business that can generically work in other markets, whether through other vehicles or in other countries.

Sam Parr

There can be more than one winner. You know, like you can go to more than one conference a year. It's not a winner-take-all business, so it's kind of interesting. Interestingly, all the companies that have bought these guys' companies have been European. I looked online about what they were doing, and one of the big things they were doing was, first of all, they've gotten really good at selling. They hosted the event in 2022, and at the end of 2022, they already had 90% of the revenue for 2023 because you sell the upsell to the people right away for the next year, and you could sell multiple years. The second thing they're doing is they're starting to charge money for online communities. So, like, "Alright, you met at the conference, you can keep us up." They're doing online communities, and that's one of the reasons I'm interested in this business. That's why I've been studying this and figuring this out. It's just a super fascinating thing, I think.

Shaan Puri

It is great! I really like this one. Is there anything else on this? Otherwise, we could do another topic.

Sam Parr

no I don't I fucking I just so I have that's what

Shaan Puri

I got so much stuff backloaded, by the way. I know I spent like half of the 40 minutes of this podcast just discussing the mentality of a downturn. But again, I think it's the most important topic. Whether you're an employee, an employer, or an investor, nobody is going to be spared from the economy going into a recession. The stock market is tanking, the crypto markets are tanking, and global inflation is rising. This is like when Oprah comes out and says, "You get a disaster! You get a disaster! You get a disaster!" to everybody, right? Nobody is going to be untouched by the effects of this. Some people are going to get hit to the point where their business goes under, and they declare bankruptcy, either personally or in the business. That's going to happen, but I don't see anybody getting untouched by a stack of problems like that.

Sam Parr

Man, I remember when Biden was saying that Putin was going to invade Ukraine. I was reading about Putin and listening to Ben's podcast, "How to Take Over the World." I was like, "Hey Putin, why do you want to mess this up for everyone? Things are pretty awesome right now. What are you thinking?" That's just the conversation I wanted to have. You know, like, "Putin, everything's pretty good. What are you doing? You're going to blow this for everyone, and we're all going to get screwed." That's the kind of conversation I've had in my mind.

Shaan Puri

I've wanted to have a kid in class who's the kid in class who raises his hand and is just like, "Hey miss, you forgot to collect the homework." It's like, dude, what are you doing? Are you joking? We are 7 minutes away from getting out of here.

Sam Parr

Dude, do you buy... okay, so this sounds like a very yuppie asshole thing to say, but I don't really look at gas prices because I don't drive that much. You know, it's just like, I gotta buy gas, and it's not gonna hurt me however much it costs. I'll buy it. I was driving up here from Austin to Brooklyn, where I'm living now, and I was listening to the news. They were talking about gas prices, and I was like, "Oh shit, I haven't even looked at the gas prices while I've been driving up here." I wonder what it is. It was like $5.50, and it was crazy. Again, I know what the news was saying, but I just wasn't looking because I don't drive that much. What's the gas in California where you are? Are you paying like $6.50?

Shaan Puri

$7 a gallon how the fuck are normal people

Sam Parr

doing this that is crazy that is crazy $7

Shaan Puri

Yeah, when you said $5.50, I was like, "Wait, you're saying you found a good deal?" But you were trying to say that's a bad deal, right? I thought that.

Sam Parr

was real I mean I haven't lived in california in 2 years I remember in california it was $5 but wait

Shaan Puri

what what is it in austin

Sam Parr

Dude, I don't even know. I just looked in West Virginia when I was driving up here. I don't pay attention to gas prices; I don't drive that much, and I'm just buying it no matter what it says. But like, $7? We sound like we're fucking fools right now. How much gas does a car take? I don't even know. I mean, it would cost like $150, I guess, to fill up. How big is the tank? I don't know.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I drive an SUV, so it's like, you know, 20 gallons basically. Alright, Jonathan says it's about...

Sam Parr

4.450 at Austin, dude. So, you're spending $150 to get gas.

Shaan Puri

Yes, yeah, it's bad. But, you know, asking for a friend... I got a card that says you should use the good option. You know, pay the most when you go to the gas station. Like, pick the top of the three options. Let's just say, what?

Sam Parr

do you drive what's your suv

Shaan Puri

I got a BMW X5, and so it's like, let's say your boy's been putting the **shitty** one in for a while. You know, does this matter? Is this like marketing? Or do I pay some price later in life, or do I pay some price now? I actually never really knew how big of a deal that is. Is it pretty strict?

Sam Parr

I don't know I but your pay it send wait

Shaan Puri

I feel like, you know, Ben, of the... like 90 or whatever the top-end gas is, and I've just been... you know...

Sam Parr

okay so the most

Shaan Puri

The expensive thing is something eating McDonald's. It's the most... yeah, I don't even know what the... yeah, it's basically around $7 a gallon. I think that's kind of...

Sam Parr

the top oh my god

Shaan Puri

or something

Sam Parr

That's crazy! Yeah, that's wild. So, every 18 miles is $7 for you, basically.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I don't know. I don't even think about it. It is what it is. I need to get places, and like, that's the cost of gas right now. What am I gonna do? I'm not gonna drive to West Virginia and get gas. I'm not gonna not drive around, you know? I do need to go places, and so, you know, it is what it is.

Sam Parr

Of course, it's not a big deal for you, but remember how we were talking about how the economy was crushing for years? I've got so many friends that are like, "Man, I've been in my apartment for a year and a half, for two years. I've got a money-burning hole in my pocket. I haven't bought anything. I have all-time high savings. I'm ready to save." And all these people are quitting their jobs because they're like, "F that! I get these checks. I've saved up money. I'm not taking this thing at $7 a gallon." People are just going to run out, I guess, right? I mean, like, you're just going to run out of savings. A huge amount of people.

Shaan Puri

Again, you gotta cut back, right? So, you know, I cut back down to that low-end gas so I could save the 30 to 40 cents a gallon. Other people are just going to drive less. They’re going to take public transport, or they’re going to carpool, or they’re going to find something. People will find a way; that’s my general mentality. I spent a lot of my life living in places like Jakarta or Beijing. In Beijing, right next to our house, there were people just shucking corn all day. They were sitting in a squat, removing husks from corn for like 10 hours straight in the heat. They would take their breaks, smoke a cigarette, and play some mahjong. That’s what they did, and they were fine. Then, you know, your driver had a different set of problems. In Jakarta, and in India, people just burn trash on the side of the road because there’s no waste removal system. They burn it, and then it’s gone. I was like, “Yeah, but it smells awful all day!” And they were like, “What are you talking about? This is how air smells.” I was like, “No, no, no, Ben, that’s not how air has to smell.” The range of how humans can live, survive, and thrive is so much wider than the average person thinks. I don’t know; I just don’t really pay too much attention. You have to figure out how to govern yourself in a new world. Are you a self-governing individual or not? Because if you are not a self-governing individual, every day you’re going to get punched in the face with bad news. You gotta learn how to parry a punch; otherwise, you are going to get knocked out just by taking it.

Sam Parr

those jabbs

Shaan Puri

to the nose every day

Sam Parr

I just got done. I was in Missouri for two weeks. Most people aren't like that. They're just... most people are not that resourceful. That's what I've learned. I actually think that our audience is like that, but most are not. They're not saying, "Oh, I gotta go start something. I gotta do this." I think most people are just going to be... well, they're just going to be in a tough spot. That's really what I think.

Shaan Puri

so so I'm writing a book right now I don't know if I told you this I've rent write a book I'm using that like scribe media thing where you they like write the book for you or whatever is it awesome content they just they write the words after you say it to the guy on the phone for like 2 hours every like week or something I don't know if it's awesome I'm loving doing it because I'm like oh cool I get to like put something down on paper like that is fun and I'm not gonna like sell the book I'm gonna do something different with it but whatever so basically. Is the start of my book is that everybody wants the same things like everybody wants to be like wealthy everybody wants to be like in a great relationships great family everybody wants to be like in you know great shape and you look at like okay cool so like if everybody wants that and that's all achievable then certainly you know like most people are doing that no okay half people are do it's like most people have the exact opposite of that result most marriages are ending in you know unhappy or ending in divorce most people in america are are you know overweight or obese and most people don't have like you know more than $10,000 of savings in the bank or whatever for like a rainy day and so everybody wants the same things everybody wants to be you know you know rich fit and madly in love and in fact everybody has the opposite and so like if you if you think like most people think you're gonna do what most people do and you're gonna get the result most people get and the sad truth is that the results most people are getting are not very good and like I so that's the start of my like that's the premise of my book and that's the start and then the the the second part of of I guess like I would say a controversial thing about me is I am totally okay not taking into consideration most people's situation I am so like for example I always I I it sounds like an asshole thing I understand I said it in a purposely provocative way right I did not wanna soften that what do I mean by that like I always talked about like oh I love to teach and I wanna be a teacher so most people see that as like some like mother teresa you know like sort of like save the world like be the educator who helps all I'm like no no no I do not wanna try to educate everybody or teach everybody I'm like most people are horrible students they don't wanna learn anything they're not gonna learn anything they're not gonna do anything with even if you told them the exact right answer or how to think they're just not gonna do it so like why would I waste my energy doing that like no no no my preference is like in a in a population of a 100% of people there's like 3% that like really want to know the answer and of them maybe like 20% of them are gonna be able to actually take action on it like I'm only gonna try to teach the driven and motivated and capable like and that is not a like society like socially acceptable.

Shaan Puri

Of view, but it is my operating philosophy to like myself. I focus on controlling the things I can control and not on other things. Secondly, even when I'm talking about what most people should do, I know that most people are not going to be able to do that, or want to do that, or choose to do that. That's okay. I'm not talking to most people; I'm talking to the 1 to 3% of the population who want to thrive in those ways. I hope everybody else listens to it and says, "This guy is a jerk and like, does so out of touch." It's like, and they leave my orbit and unfollow me completely because I am trying to be intentionally out of touch in the same way that I intentionally avoid the news.

Sam Parr

that's hilarious

Shaan Puri

It is part of my core strategy to be out of touch and avoid the news. I choose not to learn from or speak to the common denominator of the population. I know that all of this sounds completely awful to some people, but you know, I'm okay with that. I do believe that even if you disagree with my approach, I hope you can agree that I'm allowed to have that choice. If you don't think I have the choice to do that, then I disagree with you and all of your ways of living.

Sam Parr

Yeah, you're like, "If you don't think that my opinion is good, I get that, and you're fine, but you're wrong, and I hate you." That's basically not what it is.

Shaan Puri

If you think my opinion's wrong, I understand. I would expect that from a lot of people. If you think I shouldn't be allowed to have my opinion or to act on my opinion, that's where there's a difference. There's a difference between "I disagree" and "that's not allowed" or "that's not okay" or "no, you can't do that" or, you know, "lynch him." There's a difference in being able to disagree and disallow. I would say you're... you know, like I don't think they're...

Sam Parr

They're going a little far with the lynch. Yeah, they're going to kill them. Yeah, lynch them.

Shaan Puri

yeah yeah yeah that's that's probably a bit bit harsh

Sam Parr

Alright, that's the pod. We'll see if people dig it. I mean, what if tomorrow it just goes back to normal? That would be nice. By the way...

Shaan Puri

If you want to cancel me, I hope people get our voices mixed up and think that this has been Sam talking the whole time.

Sam Parr

why do

Shaan Puri

people hear this is sam

Sam Parr

I think they're saying that part

Shaan Puri

P.A.R.R. Yeah, you could find him. He's affiliated with HubSpot. If you want to go get him, like, that's the guy to go get if you didn't like what was just said.

Sam Parr

Dude, I still get people messaging me saying that they confuse us. I don't understand that. I guess I think they're people.

Shaan Puri

Go watch the YouTube video, and they're like, "Shit, I've been had! You guys mixed up for like a year."

Sam Parr

I think what they're saying is I look beefier, but I talk nerdier. You look nerdier, and you talk beefier. So, it is what it is.

Shaan Puri

you you look dumb and you talk smart and I look smart and I talk dumb

Sam Parr

alright we'll talk soon

Shaan Puri

peanut butter and jelly baby it's a perfect compliment yeah alright I'm right here