Making Billions in Coworking & the Dark Side of Confidence | My First Million #190

Shaan Puri

I get to see how they're wired. I get to see what makes them tick. I get to see what they're motivated by. So now, when it comes time to get great effort out of them, I know what moves the needle for them personally. I feel like I can rule the world.

Sam Parr

So, on this episode, we're talking to Dan. We're asking about him and discussing the episode where we broke down the coworking space. We found an interesting opportunity: a founder started and sold a company in that space, and he still said he would start another company there. He thinks it could be huge, which is a good sign. We also talked about this weird business called Ice Barrels, and then we discussed "the Nike of recovery," which is a really interesting company with a great story. Additionally, we talked about Adam Neumann, the founder of WeWork, and how he has this crazy, hypnotic personality. I love learning about that. I actually think it's something you need if you're ever going to lead anyone.

Shaan Puri

And then I shared a Steve Jobs story I heard that may or may not be true. I have no idea.

Sam Parr

but it could be true

Shaan Puri

it could be true that's all I would guarantee

Sam Parr

Alright, that's the episode. By the way, if there's a follow button on your Spotify, do me a favor and click that because we're trying to grow the podcast. Then, click the subscribe button on iTunes. Thank you! It literally makes a difference. We only need a handful of people in order to go up in the ratings, and it's because of that, I think. So, click it!

Shaan Puri

what's up

Sam Parr

what's going on cool shirt

Shaan Puri

Thank you! Me or Dan? Dan got a Harvard shirt also, so he's part of the crew now.

Sam Parr

oh very good dan you look nice

Shaan Puri

can we

Sam Parr

but but I actually dan did you go to harvard I could see that

Shaan Puri

yeah he looks like a harvard man

Dan

I didn't go to harvard but I have been to the bookstore

Sam Parr

Oh, alright. Same, same, same. What's going on? Anything new?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, lots of new stuff. But let's jump in. We have a bunch of topics today, so we'll spare people the small talk.

Sam Parr

Alright, I think they'd like that, but that's fine. I'm down. Let's get down to business. Where do you want to go first?

Shaan Puri

You have something that you did a bunch of research on. I want to go to that first. Was it the co-working spaces you were looking into? What are you looking at?

Sam Parr

yeah so oh by the way I see you have ice barrel here interesting

Shaan Puri

yes

Sam Parr

I'm happy to discuss that. Ice coworking... so on our trip, Ben made a suggestion. He... I... one of us was teasing like, "We should do this, we should do this, we should do this." Him or you or me, one of us, but he was kind of nailing down the... Mentioned coworking, yeah. And I was...

Shaan Puri

That's kind of cool. I think his quote was something like: > "Here's my big idea for the podcast: Take the MFM [My First Million], and create like a network of coworking spaces that already exist. Just license the name out and offer the promotion to your members to be able to access them." That was his idea.

Sam Parr

Yes, and I started thinking about that. I've always wanted to get a little bit more into real estate, and I thought it was cool. I just basically put the bat signal out there and tweeted, "Who is an expert in coworking? I want to learn." What I love to do for this podcast... I did this with the vending machine [topic]. All I do is I get someone on the phone, and I don't want to bring them on the podcast because they might be boring or they're not good at this type of thing.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

But I basically just want to ask them tons of questions, and that's what I did. I took notes, and so I found a guy named Preston. I actually don't know how to pronounce his last name; I know I never know how to say it. It's Pesek (P-E-S-E-K). His Twitter handle is @PrestonPesek. He had this company called Spacious, which he sold to WeWork. I imagine he sold it for a lot of money because when I called him, it was like noon East Coast time, and he was just going for a bike ride.

Shaan Puri

his butt looked up

Sam Parr

Yes, well, it looked like he was in a nice area of town in New York and he wasn't working. So, I imagine it was a good deal. But have you heard of Spacious by any chance?

Shaan Puri

what was it okay does it still exist or they shut it down

Sam Parr

They shut it down, but it was crazy interesting. So, we're going to talk about coworking right now. We're going to discuss where the opportunities are and where this guy thinks there are opportunities. He has an interesting perspective. He wouldn't tell me the revenue, but I would imagine it was north of 8 figures a year in revenue. What Spacious did originally was find restaurants that were only open at night or had most of their business from 6 PM to dinner time. They would do a coworking thing where you would pay a little bit of money—$29, I believe—and you would get access to use this restaurant as a coworking place.

Shaan Puri

So, I'd heard of this before: there are restaurants that basically have prime locations, nice interiors, and they're only going to be used during mealtimes. The pre-dinner service, which is like your workday, they were turning into this... I remember thinking, "Oh, that's cool," and then I never heard about it again. So I sort of assumed it didn't work, but what you're saying is it started to kind of work and they got acquired?

Sam Parr

No, so what he was saying is that it worked wonderfully, but WeWork made him an offer so good that he was like, "I can't refuse this." I don't know if this guy I met worked at a hedge fund before, but maybe, you know, he didn't come from a rich background, and it was a big deal. So I don't blame him. Basically, it started by doing restaurants, and eventually, it did retail. What that means is you have some type of ground-level real estate, and they would make a deal with the retail. So, retail real estate is not necessarily like a Lululemon store; it's like a store that's typically used for Lululemon. They would make deals with them for as short as 30 days, but it could be as long as 6 to 12 months, where they would lease the place and then charge people $29. They would try to get people to come in, and it would be called a "hot seat," basically.

Shaan Puri

pop up

Sam Parr

yeah you well you know what that is

Shaan Puri

Hot desking. Yeah, so basically, you don't have an assigned seat. You come in, and it's sort of like a first come, first serve type of thing for the day.

Sam Parr

So, if I told you about this and you didn't know anything about the business, I imagine you'd be skeptical and think, "This probably can't work that well," right?

Shaan Puri

I'd be like, "Yeah, it's hard, right?" You know, it's cool to have Airbnb for co-working or for your work, and I've heard of a lot of people trying this. People are trying this with their home - you could take a part of your home and turn it into a cafe for people to come and sit and have Wi-Fi. And I just felt like I never heard from any of these companies ever again. I heard the idea and then... crickets for the next 2 years.

Sam Parr

According to Preston, who started and exited the company, he may not start this because, as he says, "I don't know if I want to start another company." But he goes on to say, "I would love to invest in this space." This is always a great sign if someone has started and sold something and still wants to go back and do it. He continues, "It crushed it, and I think that someone could still crush it." He explains, "It's just like a hotel. A Four Seasons can exist and also..." [Note: The transcription seems to cut off mid-sentence, so the final thought is incomplete.]

Shaan Puri

motel 6

Sam Parr

A Motel 6, like a lot of different brands, can exist in this space. It's incredibly lucrative and can work wonderfully. For his spaces, the way it would work is they would have at least **100 seats**, which means **100 areas** that someone could sit. They would have check-ins, but they would aim to have **200 to 300 seats** in a good location. The target was **15 check-ins per month**. If a location had that at **$29**, that comes out to be around **$90,000 a month**, and the profit margin on that could be about **40%**. That profit margin includes the person manning the location and rent, so it's quite lucrative. He was like, "Yeah, we could crush it." He mentioned that you could definitely bootstrap this into a smaller location, but he thinks there's a lot of space for this. If you're going to do it, raise as much money as you possibly can. I think a person could build a business that makes **$1,000,000,000** a year in revenue.

Shaan Puri

so how is this different than just wework right like isn't this just wework

Sam Parr

I'll explain. So, the problem with WeWork is basically long, so here I've tried to break this down into a framework. The reason why a lot of coworking doesn't work now—when we're talking about what's called hot desking—is different than the traditional model. When you think of traditional coworking, you probably think of a freelancer or a small business owner who wants to spend $300 a month to have a desk all the time at a WeWork. Let's just call that the traditional coworking model. The way that that works is basically you sign an agreement for a 10-year lease, and then you go and do arbitrage. You find, "Alright, if I'm paying this much in my lease per square foot, I'm going to subdivide it and rent it for a short term." But here's the issue: long-term liability. You have a 10-year lease with a short-term income stream or a short-term rental agreement. People may only stay for 2, 3, or 4 months because it's a month-to-month lease that you're renting to them. So, you just get churn, and it's hard to keep up with that. I mean, things can change, like a pandemic where everyone works from home. It just doesn't work. What we did was take short-term liability. A lot of their places can kick them out at any time, but they had so many of them that it was considered like a pop-up, and that was okay. It didn't matter if a place closed for a little while because they could just go somewhere nearby in that building or in that area. So, it worked out really, really well.

Shaan Puri

I don't know if it's because I didn't talk to this guy or what, but I still feel a little bit like... yeah, you know, same shit, different toilet. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not sure that I fully understand why this is that much better than traditional coworking. I think traditional coworking is, you know, kind of marginally good. Or maybe I've just seen some disasters, right? Breather, for example, raised a ton of money and looked like they were the next unicorn. I think they ended up selling for $3,000,000.

Sam Parr

so would they sell to $3,000,000 or

Shaan Puri

I don't know... You know, I have an uncle who could have bought Breather. So, it didn't have like a fantastic exit. WeWork is also running into problems that I think were not just due to the pandemic, but this arbitrage model was sort of thin. I'm a little bit skeptical, but okay. Where do you see the opportunities beyond this?

Sam Parr

Okay, if you're skeptical, to be honest, I'm skeptical too. But I still think it's cool. I've got another angle here. Yeah, so co-working. I asked him, but co-working sounds more interesting because I want that recurring revenue. I don't want to open up loads of locations. How do I make that work? He goes, "Well, the best way that you can make that work is you've got supply and you've got demand." The supply being... I'm probably gonna screw up my supply and demand, so actually, let's just skip that part. But basically, you have your consumers—your people who want to come and rent that place. He was like, "That's actually not that important. What's important is that you pick good locations and you do the real estate part well." But what if you could figure that out, which is kind of straightforward but still a lot of work? You have to figure out how to make your consumers incredibly sticky. The only way that he could find to make it sticky is you have to have shared interests. So, for example, do you know The Wing?

Shaan Puri

yeah yeah the female co working space

Sam Parr

He says that that's a great business, and the reason is that there's likely not going to be... The reason why you need it to be sticky is that you need someone to be willing to stay there for over a year, right? So he goes, "Shared interest is the best way." And he goes, "How do you come up with shared interest?" You go to Facebook groups, you go to Meetup.com, and you just find whatever has a fan base. It could be like women, it could be different minority groups, it could be fitness enthusiasts. It seems like there's a huge opportunity for people in coworking, as long as you can make it sticky. So, people working on similar types of things and they don't want to leave their office—that's where you have a really good business. Whereas WeWork didn't really have that as much. So maybe an MFN coworking business could actually work, but maybe not.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, maybe... you know, one interesting thing, I don't know if you saw, there's a bank that did coworking inside of it. I think it was Chase Bank or Wells Fargo.

Sam Parr

I used to go there all the time

Shaan Puri

well which one was it

Sam Parr

Capital, capital, capital... Is it Capital One? Is it Capital One?

Shaan Puri

Chase, I think, is the parent there. So, you used to go there. I don't know why they were doing that. Did they just want foot traffic in the branch or what?

Sam Parr

So here's the other thing: coworking could actually be a great customer lead generation tool. Another way is, if you want to go into the coworking business, it could be far more interesting if you're a software company. I joked with my guys at HubSpot, saying, "Guys, we should do this." If you're a software company, I actually think there's an interesting play here to have a coworking space. Or if you're a bank, something that you are trying to get freelancers or business owners into, and you have a super high lifetime value (LTV) of tens of thousands of dollars, it could actually be interesting to pursue this.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, like I wonder why every tech company is spending so much money recruiting engineers and just recruiting in general. Why not just have space as your recruiting tool? So, you basically rent out space. Even if you break even or are slightly unprofitable, you would make up for it in the actual recruiting of people who are there because they're in your orbit. They’re in the Uber office in the Uber co-working area, and they get to eat the food and whatever else. Sure enough, you're just absorbing talent as you go, as part of that. I don't know if it would be worth it, but those are my thoughts on co-working. I don't have a ton of thoughts. I think that WeWork is great as a real estate company. And by great, I don't mean like it's bulletproof. Obviously, the pandemic was sort of the worst possible thing that could happen to any co-working company. But I do believe that most value in real estate is by change of use. You buy something that's valued at a warehouse square footage and convert it into self-storage, making more per square foot. That's what WeWork was doing. It's the same fundamental model as self-storage, but they were doing it with people. I think that business, if not sort of managed by a lunatic, probably wouldn't have gotten as big as fast, but also would not have had the fall it did. I'm curious to see how this shakes out. I would be shocked. A lot of people love to criticize WeWork; they think it's a terrible business. Well, I would be shocked if, 10 years from now, there weren't at least 2 or 3 multibillion-dollar co-working companies out there. So, you can criticize the space, you can criticize WeWork, but in reality, I think that there are going to be winners in that space.

Sam Parr

Let's talk about the lunatic real quick. You just said it was worn by a lunatic. If you're one of the... this is probably even more fascinating. So, I went and did a lot of research on this and I talked to people—not this guy, but other people who knew Adam or worked with Adam. Yeah, so WeWork was run by this guy named Adam Neumann. He was like crazy, maybe not always in a bad way, probably mostly in a good way. I talked to a bunch of people and I narrowed it down. I basically said, "What makes this guy so great?" So, basically, they're explaining to me... they go, "Adam was—here's a quote from this woman I talked to—'Adam was unique. In a one-to-one conversation, it was like looking into a mirror and seeing myself, but that mirror was a megaphone of my best self.' He made me believe that I was the best and I could do anything." I asked him, "Was he dyslexic, isn't he?" And they go, "Yeah, I think he is." I've noticed that dyslexic people rank so high on having this ability to—and this sounds negative, I don't mean this negatively—manipulate people. To manipulate them into believing that... like to persuade and lead people. They just said, "He would echo back what I would tell myself, but for some reason, I would believe it. I believed that I was the best that I possibly could be, and he made me feel that anything was possible." I think that is so fascinating and even more interesting than WeWork.

Shaan Puri

did you watch the wework documentary on hulu

Sam Parr

did you no

Shaan Puri

I did because, you know, you get to sort of see firsthand what the guy is like. Because he's on camera, it's pretty raw. It's footage from when WeWork was still on the rise. Yeah, there was sort of this cult of personality around him. He didn't seem particularly charming or anything like that. But I think the thing I've seen with this is that some people are so irrational in their belief. It takes some irrationality to do anything because if you're just perfectly rational, you look at your current situation and say, "This is what it is." Anytime something else, you know, a goal, a vision, or a dream comes up, it will look completely irrational. So we all have a little bit of irrationality in us; otherwise, we wouldn't have goals or dreams. He was like sort of 90/10—90% irrational, maybe not even 10% rational. Maybe it was just 99/1, irrational to rational. From day one, he was saying what this was going to be, how amazing it was going to be, how this investor was going to give us every dollar that they had, and how this customer was going to have the greatest experience of their life. He believed it with every bone in his body. When you encounter somebody with that kind of certainty, it is very addictive and sort of intoxicating. Because if they believe in themselves that much, there are really two ways to go. Some people become haters because they don't have that sort of self-belief in themselves, and then other people sort of become followers. They join in because they just like being around that level of certainty. I thought that was pretty cool.

Sam Parr

I love it I love it

Shaan Puri

The way you know when I watched that Fyre Festival documentary... I felt the same way. I was like, first of all, badass vision! Fyre Festival was a great idea.

Sam Parr

and it almost worked

Shaan Puri

God-awful execution, and it almost worked. It was so irrational that it almost overcame rationality, but it didn't. It failed in the end, but most people... and laugh. I think that was, you know, like kind of an amazing swing. I agree that was more impressive than... that failure was more impressive than most people's successes, as far as I'm concerned. I thought there was a big, big audacious vision. Got a bunch of people on board, almost pulled it off. "Almost" might be a little generous, but you know, at least... at least took some [risks].

Sam Parr

Is like he rallied people around like almost in the sense of like it could have

Shaan Puri

yeah sold all the tickets got all the big names on board right

Sam Parr

like right

Shaan Puri

You know, it wasn't fraud. It wasn't intentional fraud from what I remember. It wasn't like...

Sam Parr

You know, it was... but that's okay. That's not entirely important. I mean, I do think that there was fraud, but there was also a true belief of "I can pull it off."

Shaan Puri

Right, there's "fake it till you make it" and then there's fraud. "Fake it till you make it" is: Hey, it's not there yet, but I believe I could pull this off. We're gonna do it, we're gonna find a way. If I just tell them this, if I tell them it's already booked, then we'll figure out a way.

Sam Parr

To get it booked, you know, intention matters. When we hung out this weekend, I felt a little bit of that with you. You didn't say any audacious things, but you have this sense of belief. It's like, "Well, yeah, why not?" You went and met with people that I'm like, "Really? You're doing that?" You just talked to them. You're like, "I'm gonna do this." Do you know that you have a little bit of that in you as well? You have more of a... I think you, and this is not insulting you, are emotionally healthy. You're not like Adam, where you have to say, "I'm gonna take over the world" in order to feel good. Do you know what I mean?

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

So, you're very confident. You do things almost because you just... like it's more fun than it is out of a personality deficit of "I have to be on top."

Shaan Puri

and and

Sam Parr

So, it's a little bit more healthy, but you had that same magnetism. Do you realize that, right?

Shaan Puri

I do realize it because I try to do that. You know, once you try something for like five years straight, you stop having to try. Effort is what creates effortless. So, I put in the effort, and now I don't have to try anymore; it just happens. The reason I know I did it was because I was very conscious about it. The reason we both love Conor McGregor, and why I think really any fan loves Conor McGregor, is not because of the way he throws his left hand when he punches. It's because the guy had this ludicrous self-belief when he was literally on welfare, as a failed plumber in Ireland. He was talking about how he was going to become the largest, you know, "I'm going to become a two-weight world champion, the biggest sports star on earth, number one on the Forbes list." And then guess what? This year, he landed number one on the Forbes list. He's the number one star in combat sports. You know, two-weight world champion achieved. So, those of us who got to see that rise, yeah, we're happy for Conor, but really, we're happy for ourselves. That, "Holy shit, this guy with just literally nothing but self-confidence." Self-confidence drove him to work because he believed that he could achieve it. He was motivated, and then when he worked plus the self-confidence, he overcame all the odds. And had it, maybe I can have some of that too. Put a little bit of that in my drink. That's how I felt about it. So, you know, I don't care about becoming a two-weight world champion, but I have my own versions of those that I just sort of decided, "Why would I doubt myself?"

Sam Parr

what what's that word you can

Shaan Puri

See what's written behind me. This will be one of my Sunday stories. I don't want to spoil it, but the teaser for this Sunday's story time with Sean is **doubt**. If you're going to doubt anything, doubt doubt. That's how I feel now. So, how do you feel confident? Well, you start to doubt doubt. You start to lack lack. You start to doubt having lack. You start to lack having doubt. That's where you want to get to in order to have that sort of unshakable self-confidence.

Sam Parr

What's that? Conor McGregor's had that Forbes thing of the two-weight champion. What’s yours?

Shaan Puri

I've always said this: I want to have 1% of the world's population consider me someone who is, you know, one of their favorite teachers. Someone who they've learned from. The version of that that I saw was that math teacher, that guy Biju in India, who sold out a stadium. He had a stadium full of people come to watch him teach. I thought that was incredible. You know, you start to see it come to reality. We just did a live show. Okay, it wasn't 70,000,000 people; it was 300 people, 400 people showing up at our live show. But you start to see that come to fruition. A year ago, that didn't exist. Who's to say a year from now that's not 3,000 people? Who's to say a year from that it's not 30,000 people? That seems entirely believable to me. I've sort of envisioned it, and so when it happens, I won't be surprised. I'll be pleased, but I won't be surprised.

Sam Parr

And I've actually heard stories about a lot of these people. I've talked to a lot of the early employees. One of my good friends, his name's Will, he was like number 40 or something at Uber. He tells me stories where he was like, "I just felt like anything was possible. I felt like I was in war and my coworkers were my fellow troops. I loved it. I felt like there was constant action and we were in this together." That had a similar type of vibe. I've heard it from who else? I mean, I hear from a lot of fraudsters, obviously, but yeah, who else? Who have you heard that from?

Shaan Puri

Heard from... it's the sword that cuts both ways, right? You know, if you spot it, you got it. That's sort of the way that most of these things work. All the extreme strengths come with a corresponding evil. Right? Just like Facebook—a technology that connected everybody in the world. And then guess what? You know, like, fucking chaos. Also, from connecting everybody in the world, the spread of information has never been easier. We can spread... you know, a student in India has more access to knowledge than the emperor did, you know, a hundred years ago. Well, guess what? They also have access to fake news and porn and all these other bad things. Right? Like, that's why it's funny whenever somebody would criticize crypto and say, "Oh, it could be used for all these bad things." All that tells me is that this can be used for extremely good things also because there's a duality with all of those. And so that's how I think about, you know, this extreme confidence. If I was gonna rank, I would put at the top... if you think about what's the most intoxicating, desirable thing when you meet somebody, the first number one I would say is a sense of peace. When you meet somebody who's truly happy—like, they're not bubbling over with joy, but they're just happy, you know? When they're at rest, when nothing is going on, or even when, you know, quote unquote, bad things are going on. I think that is when you see that it's really hard to... like, you just want to be around that person. You want to be like that person.

Sam Parr

and who have you met anyone like that

Shaan Puri

My trainer's like that. Just the other day, he came to our house at 1 PM. He trained me for 80 to 90 minutes, then he trained the next person, and then the next person. So, he was going from 1 PM until 7:30 PM. That doesn't sound like a lot of hours, but when you watch what he's doing, he's not just sitting there on his phone while you're working out. He's fully engaged—motivating you, changing the weights, demonstrating exercises, bringing that excitement, and talking to you. Whatever he has to do, he's switched on and performing. By hour 7, he hadn't eaten anything, he hadn't had a sip of water, and he hadn't taken a single break. It was just one person, and it wasn't even expected. By the way, it was just somebody who was at my house. He was like, "Oh, can I get a session in?" and my trainer said, "Come on in." So, by 7...

Sam Parr

wait wait wait wait you just had people coming in to your house

Shaan Puri

Like, my mom was over, and she wanted to work out. Normally, she does it on a different day, but he was like, "Alright, yeah, jump in. I'm here." So what happened was, by the end of it, I walk into the garage where he was cleaning up the workout stuff, and he's got this huge smile on his face. My wife and I walked out because we were going to go for a walk, and we see him smiling and laughing. I don't even know why—nobody was there. I have no idea what he was smiling about; he was just smiling. Then, he was putting things away, and he just looks at me and goes, "Party time!" I don't even know what he was talking about. I have no idea what he was thinking about, but he was just in that mood with this huge smile. I told my wife, "You know how I am at the end of a workday? When I work hard and feel like I really exerted effort, and I had to go above and beyond and do a little extra that day, I become like such a whiny little brat. I'm like, 'Oh, I'm so tired. I need to eat. I did so much. Now you need to do that work. I'm done.'" I become this sort of entitled little brat about myself, you know? And I'm like crashing. I felt like this guy was just coming at me and being like, "Party time!" I don't know what he was even thinking about, but that's not the way I end my workday when I feel like I worked overtime.

Sam Parr

so what's number 2 then you said happiness

Shaan Puri

The next one is the sort of self-delusion. It is the irrational confidence in oneself. When you meet somebody like that, it is intoxicating, even if they are not successful. I intentionally have not put rich and famous people on this list yet because I've had experiences with both. You meet a really successful person, you meet a really famous person, or you meet somebody who is completely happy. You meet somebody who truly believes in themselves, even when you're like, "Dude, there's no way you're gonna pull that off." And they truly believe it. They're not just boasting or puffing their chest out. To me, that is like a drug to be around somebody like that because I want to be like that. I want to be truly happy. I want to be truly confident. They don't even have to try to show it; it's just on their face, in the way they walk, and in the way they talk. I can contrast that to the way I think and I see, "Oh, that's the gap. That's where I want to be." So I think those are the two most, I guess, intoxicating things in people. What do you think? Is that the same for you, or is that just me?

Sam Parr

I know a bunch of people like that. In both ways, I'm exhausted; I can't be around you anymore. But then, I crave it constantly.

Shaan Puri

I I crave you when you're gone yeah

Sam Parr

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, when my friends talk about working with Travis, they're like, "Are you gonna go work at his new company?" They're like, "He's trying to recruit me." I just can't do it. I can't go to war again. I'm just too worn out. But I miss it every day, so it's like a duality there. But yeah, I completely agree with you. I'm actually reading this book, *The Laws of Human Nature*, in order to learn a little bit more. I used to study this stuff constantly. I would read books on influence and persuasion because I was like, "I can't build anything, so I just have to be a leader of people." I've got to persuade people to do this because I can't do it. I don't have the ability, so I have to bring some attributes to the table.

Shaan Puri

was my thing attributes

Sam Parr

oh there

Shaan Puri

you go

Sam Parr

Dan's reading it too. So, what do you... I read "The Laws of Human Nature" by Robert Greene, which is about how to influence humans a little bit and how we think. I like "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and I like "Think and Grow Rich" for self-confidence. Is there anything you like?

Shaan Puri

I don't know about book-wise, but you just reminded me of something I read yesterday. There's a Quora story about this guy who interviewed at Apple with Steve Jobs. Have you ever read this story? No? Oh, sorry! I'm pulling it up right here so you can have the link.

Sam Parr

I was shaking my head no

Shaan Puri

yeah podcast bro we gotta have audio so

Sam Parr

I know

Shaan Puri

so okay so so there's this thing like so so this guy writes this anonymous thing this might be by the way this might just be straight up like fan fiction so so like if I fell for some fan fiction you know my bad either way it was pretty inspiring so this this guy goes yeah I was at mit and and you know I was getting recruited by apple and I didn't wanna work at apple I wanted to go do something else I don't know stay in school or like go to a different job he's like but you know people told me like okay just go apple go go interview see if you get the job see if you get an offer like that's good for you so he goes to apple and he's he's sitting in the interview and sure enough like they're asking a bunch of questions that just make him be like if this is your question I just definitely don't wanna work here and then he's like then I heard this sort of like sound on the other side of the like kind of the glass door or whatever the mirror and and you know steve jobs walks in and steve jobs walks in and he kinda like dismisses the vp who was like doing the interview and he looks he's like he sits down he doesn't look at me he looks at the sheet of questions and he's just reading them he's like like I don't know 5 6 7 minutes go by he hasn't introduced himself he hasn't said a word to me he hasn't looked up and made eye contact he is just reading this list of interview questions and he's like kinda scoffing at them as he's reading them and he's just like you know muttering kinda like like you know stupid and so he and he basically the you know sort of the long story short is he goes you know how would we ever expect somebody interesting to to work with us when we ask the most uninteresting questions and so he's like muttering that and so he he he puts the paper down and he looks at the guy and he goes who are you and he goes the guy kinda like answers like most people would or whatever he's like you know I'm I'm tom I don't know his name let's pretend he's tom you know I'm tom you know I'm you know I'm interviewing for the job here yeah I know what you're doing I said who are you who are you he's like you know honestly I don't even really want this job like you know like I'm not that interested in working at apple he he's like he's like I'm not asking if you're interested in the job I'm asking you who are right so he's like going back and forth and the guy's like look you know whatever he tries to answer the question and then steve's like why don't you wanna work at apple and he goes honestly you know I just blah blah blah steve goes like take a walk with me right and steve jobs' famous for like these walking meetings so he he's like okay like I guess so you know and so he takes a walk with him and so they they walk around the the sort of campus and he's like you can literally see like it's like he's got a a like a gravity field around him like everywhere he walks people just clear the path because they don't want to like talk to him they don't want to like get in his way bother him or anything like that he's like we're talking and he's giving me the whole spiel of like you know we're breaking some really great stuff here like we're really really great like you won't believe and just like kind of the like steve in the keynote he's doing the the kind of like build up he's not telling him anything yet when he's telling him it's really great he's like you gotta meet john johnny ive right you gotta come meet johnny and they go into johnny ive's office and he's showing him cool stuff or whatever anyways the story ends with with the guy sort of like getting wrapped up in the like intoxication of steve jobs he's like dude I told you I don't wanna work here I don't wanna work here and steve jobs is like give me a month it'll be the best month of your life I will you know I'll pay you 3 times what your normal rate would be for the month you know for 1 month I'll make you I'll pay you triple we'll get you a car an apartment or whatever else just say yes and like say yes and we're we're we're it's done my guy's like okay and he's like fantastic and he's like jennifer jennifer will help you from here and like jennifer you know like whatever he like goes and introduces her to or he he he leaves the guy for a second he's like okay jennifer's gonna help you jennifer now knows all the details about this whole situation asks no questions you know has him sign a thing he's like what's my job title it's like you're a steve hire he's like who do I report to I guess you report to steve we don't know don't ask those questions those are not questions you wanna ask steve and he's like okay cool but like I don't live here I live in pittsburgh so I gotta like move my stuff he's like alright no no he's like he's like you know I I just have kind of my suitcase with me they're like no no steve's arranging all of your stuff to be moved here he's like well I don't know if I'm gonna stay the month he's like that's okay we'll move it back if you decide not to steve prefers steve wants you to have your stuff here and your apartment is across the street here's your keys and a car will be there waiting for you he's like this was like an hour of total time had elapsed and somehow like the world had moved to make steve's like wish come true and so I don't know again this might just be fan fiction true do you

Sam Parr

think this is true

Shaan Puri

This might just be fan fiction, and even if it is, I *fucking* love it. It's a great, like, you know, random-ass tech fan fiction.

Sam Parr

god I love that

Shaan Puri

but if it's true how fucking cool is that

Sam Parr

I I find it hard to believe it's so cool

Shaan Puri

And also there's no f***ing point to the story, right? Like, I read the story and I was like, "What's the point of this story?" I didn't know. It's stuck in my head, and I told you now, and you know, tens of thousands of listeners, and I still don't know what the point of this story is aside from... how f***ing cool is that if that happened?

Sam Parr

I think it's sick and I've and and and to bring it back to like these personality things

Shaan Puri

I'm in doing it

Sam Parr

To wrap it up, I mean, you've got a good personality. What do you think about any resources for improving that?

Shaan Puri

I'll tell you one thing I do I think that the whole cult of personality ego thing that might work for some people where they're like I'm great this place is great we're gonna do great work I think that works I find that to be really hard in practice to like execute with a straight face and so the thing that I use as like maybe my stepping stone towards being more like that is I I do this exercise with anybody I work with and in fact you know we met dan in miami this this is the one dan wanted to chat about ideas for the podcast because he's trying to do his job he's like hey I have a bunch of ideas for how we can grow the pod and make it work better and we did that normally what I would do when I first bring anyone onto the team is I basically do like a dream exercise with them I'm like okay come to this come to the come to the whiteboard room we go to the whiteboard and they expect me to like kind of outline their role or talk about the project I'm like no no no like same sort of thing who are you or who you're trying to be by the time you're done here this this job this job is like getting into a car right you're gonna have a bunch of it's going on a road trip you're gonna have a bunch of other people in the car with you we you know we're cool it's gonna be a fun hang the music is good the vibe is nice roll up the window you're gonna feel feel the air going through you know through your hair okay we're trying to get to some destination and your job is not to be like focused on the car making the car as great as it can be you're recognize that every business every experience is just a vehicle to get you to some other like destination for yourself and so like what is that for you who are you today and who do you wanna walk out of here as and I start getting them pumped talking about themselves and usually people have a very hard time even having a vision for themselves right it's like it's it's normal to have a vision for the company and a mission for the company 9 out of 10 people maybe 99 out of a 100 people don't have a vision for themselves or a mission for themselves right and and and how crazy is that like yourself is a lot more important than than the the corporation you work for and so I try to like sketch that with them and that does 2 things 1 is they realize that I care about them as a person and I'm here to like I'm gonna help them get where they wanna go right and then the second thing is I get to see how they're wired I get to see what makes them tick I get to see what what they're motivated by so now when it comes time to get great you know great effort out of them I know what moves the needle for them personally so that's the thing that's a thing I do that's like kind of in this realm

Sam Parr

I feel like I'm taking notes. Good, I dig this shit. Do you wanna just bang out a few quick ideas? You wanna start with... do you want to ice barrels?

Shaan Puri

let's do yeah can I tell the story about hyperice and then we'll talk about the ice barrels

Sam Parr

go for it

Shaan Puri

had you heard about hyperice before do you know this

Sam Parr

what is it

Shaan Puri

So, it's this thing you might have seen if you've ever seen anybody who's an athlete. After they work out or whatever, they're wearing... they're not like going in an ice tub anymore. They're wearing this giant black thing that's wrapped around their legs that's pumping some air or compression or cooling onto their body. You know, the first time you see it, it looks weird, right? They're kind of like... like they're the Michelin Man. They have this...

Sam Parr

you discover this from the guy who tweeted at us

Shaan Puri

no who tweeted at us

Sam Parr

someone was like I wanna send you guys hyperice stuff

Shaan Puri

oh no way maybe he listens to the pod that would be amazing but I I don't know I just saw this because random random story but like I I saw it because in the nba games now you always see nba players all of a sudden for the first time ever when they go to the bench to rest they don't just sit there and rest right like it used to be you go sit down and rest the camera doesn't even show you then the camera starts showing you because they wanna show your facial reaction and then what happened in the jordan era was he's always drinking gatorade right he's a sponsored athlete gatorade gatorade gatorade inside the cup of gatorade is probably water but like he's holding a gatorade cup always right because gatorade wanted to be the way you refill your body you know as a as a drink right they wanted that that that niche and by partnering with all the sports team it was sort of a genius thing right when the super bowl ends they dumped the gatorade on the coach right they created these branding moments and so now every year at the super bowl 100 of millions of people see the gatorade you know canister how genius is that so I saw a new thing that caught my attention and it was lebron went to the bench and he took this theragun looking thing out he started you know like self massaging using this gun on his leg to like recover while he was resting and I was like oh that's cool but it wasn't a theragun it was like a different device so I went and looked it up it has a thing called hypervolt and hypervolt is made by hyperice so what is this company so it's the same company that makes those those cooling like straps or I don't know what you would call it like this giant black thing you put it's a sleeve you put on your leg around your leg and it's like a way to ice your legs after you work out and so here's the backstory there's a guy who's like a teacher and a high school basketball coach and he was you know sort of always he was just a coach and he was sort of thinking about recovery because you know you get into your thirties and now when you're after you work out or after you play basketball you're gonna like not be able to walk great the next day and so he was sort of experimenting like is there anything better than just icing your like basically he thought to himself what do the pro athletes do he's like they ice they ice their knees they ice their ankles and if you watch them do it it always looked the same it was like a giant bag of ice yeah with an ace bandage around the the top of it and it literally looks like a wounded person right like you look like you're hurt if somebody was to draw a cartoon of somebody with a bum shoulder they would draw this giant ice bag on the top and and then you know and and and basically bandage wrapped around it so he's like that sucks like you're not like broken you're recovering could we make recovery look cool and be more efficient so he starts trying to design a ice wrap that's less inconvenient and looks cooler so he's like oh it'd be cool if it just like you know strapped onto you and it wasn't a bag of ice that was like you know getting wet everywhere if it was just cold and you know so he starts working on it and his friend is a guy who trains with kobe or is like a a a the coach of a of a little college that kobe used to train at at at irvine in the summers and so his friend sees his thing and goes dude you gotta show this to kobe and he's like oh okay yeah sure and he's like you know a week later he's like dude I told kobe kobe was icing his knees after after we did a workout and I told him about your thing he wants to see it can you come so he goes he shows kobe and kobe says 2 things he's like first you know some product feedback like when we're icing you know the pressure keeps escaping out of the top so like it's not working it's not compressing tight enough so can you fix that the guy's like got his notepad out he's like yeah yeah yeah for sure and kobe's like also the name fucking sucks he's like oh okay hyperice you know actually I named it after you your favorite shoe my favorite shoe is like the hyper dunks by nike so I thought hyperice and kobe was like name sucks and but he keep he ended up keeping it and so he ended up doing product development with kobe and kobe made him a deal kobe goes look if you can make it better than my current thing I'll wear it on the bench so you'll get free kind of exposure you know from this thing you see these pictures of kobe with icing his shoulder using hyperice so kobe does it people see it on the bench more athletes start asking more lakers start asking for it now other teams players start asking for it he builds a brand around this and what he's building is nike for recovery so

Sam Parr

Which is like the greatest. I mean, that's wonderful. That's wonderful because that calm... He says that he wants to be the Nike for meditation, or Nike.

Shaan Puri

for mind

Sam Parr

Yeah, and that makes sense. I get that. I think that's cool. I think this is even better.

Shaan Puri

It's even better! Exactly. Because what is Nike? Nike was all about performance. When you're on the court or on the field, they say, "Wear this, you can run faster, jump higher," blah blah blah. Then that became a super competitive space. How do we get you to perform better? "Wear this, wear this, Under Armour, you know, use these cleats," whatever it is. But nobody was really... And he's like, you would see them wear all this gear, sell a billion dollars' worth of merchandise by wearing it on the court. Then, when they got off the court, they were using ace bandages and plastic bags of ice.

Sam Parr

what a brilliant insight

Shaan Puri

Brilliant, right? He's like, "Dude, I had no idea, no intention to go into business. I was a happy teacher and coach, but... you know, I just sort of stumbled on this path, really." And so now, Hyperice, they do... they have the ice product, they have the Theragun-type product.

Sam Parr

I'm looking at it and I like this company because their stuff's expensive. And I would consider... we're gonna talk about another thing that's expensive. I would consider buying this because I think expensive [is] good.

Shaan Puri

health expensive equals good

Sam Parr

yeah like when I see the and it like it looks

Shaan Puri

use it equals good expensive equals good right

Sam Parr

yeah like everything I their branding is tight it it's a well executed thing

Shaan Puri

so let me give you some numbers last year 100,000,000 in revenue is what they said they were projecting 200,000,000 this year it raised last year at a $700,000,000 valuation so this is gonna be you know if this continues to work this will be a $1,000,000,000 + company that was started in the way that I just described how fucking cool is that story I love that story and I love this concept that we have an I you you have an idea and I have a couple other ideas about what else you could do here but here's the framework the framework is athletes are the one of the greatest marketing vehicles of all time go look at the shoe companies if you want proof of that go look at gatorade go look at who mcdonald's and coke will sponsor it's the top athletes even though they're obviously not eating mcdonald's and drinking coke in order to perform their best but that's that's they're the best marketing vehicle and the native placement is what matters so it's one thing to say you know I'm holding a coke and or you know mcdonald's in in a commercial it's another thing to watch them actually drinking you know from a gatorade cup during the thing or wearing hyperice after they train because that's feels real it feels like this is what the pros this is what top performers actually do so looking at the pregame and the postgame how much more is there if you walked into a locker room before and after a game what are all the other things you'll see them doing and then how could you turn those from unbranded moments into branded moments right beats by dre is a perfect example of this beats by dre sold to apple for $3,000,000,000 one of the reasons why is they made headphones well alright there's already a bunch of headphones out there there's sonos there's sennheiser there's all these other ones and what beats by dre did was they gave it to all the athletes they they you know dre was had the kinda hip hop roots and then all their commercials if you remember was colin kaepernick showing up to the game the fans are booing him he puts the beats by dre on he goes into the zone he can't hear the noise all he hears is his music and then he goes to the game right they intentionally always put it in the lockers of all the players so when they're doing their interviews they have headphones around their neck they have headphones hanging right behind them right they're walking into the arena that has become like before every nba game you they show the walk in what is lebron wearing when he walks in so those become branded moments where maybe you can build products around that

Sam Parr

And he obviously got all the right people to invest. I'm looking at Crunchbase; it's all athletes: Fernando Tatis, Ricky Fowler, Doc Rivers, DeAndre Jordan. What's that?

Shaan Puri

kevin durant

Sam Parr

player naomi osaka

Shaan Puri

osaka yeah

Sam Parr

this guy is gonna crush it this is the greatest thing ever

Shaan Puri

and so tell me about this ice barrel thing because I think you have a cool story around this

Sam Parr

So, I was at a friend's house. I've talked about him; he lives a few doors down from me, and his name's Andy. He started this company called Student Loan Hero, I believe, and he sold it for a lot of money—$60,000,000. I was at his house for lunch with my wife, and he had this huge barrel. I was like, "What the heck is this thing?" He goes, "It's this company that I just bought a large stake in, and I'm helping them get their stuff right." It's this barrel that you hop into, and it's just an ice barrel. That's all it is—an ice barrel. But there's one pretty shocking thing about it: it's $2,000. So, like, I'm in this text group with you.

Shaan Puri

We'll set this up in the way that you're an athlete, right? People saw the quads. They saw "Quadzilla" in the 2023.

Sam Parr

funny that that picture

Shaan Puri

Right, they spaced all the quads. You were a track athlete. When you were done training, did you ever ice?

Sam Parr

yeah did you

Shaan Puri

do ice baths

Sam Parr

yes

Shaan Puri

And what did you do for your postgame? If I had walked into the locker room looking for startup ideas, what would I have seen you doing?

Sam Parr

I mean you're just sitting in the ice bath you're just sitting there

Shaan Puri

ice bath made of it's not a barrel it's what

Sam Parr

Well, they use trash cans typically. Literally, you'll use a shitty trash can or you'll use these massive plastic buckets. But typically, it's like a trash can.

Shaan Puri

Right, so it's this unbranded thing that the athletes are doing to recover, and it's literally like a 64-gallon black trash can. Which is kind of a gross idea, that *that's* what I do to recover? I get in a fucking trash can? So that was the opportunity to make that sexy and cool and a branded moment, and that's what these guys did. It's a giant, cool-looking barrel. You know, it's like where you would store whiskey or something like that.

Sam Parr

And there's actually a few reasons why I think this is going to be big. So the best example I could think of is Yeti. There's two examples: Yeti and WeatherTech. WeatherTech makes floor mats - boring, silly thing. I buy them whenever I buy a car. I immediately buy WeatherTech mats.

Shaan Puri

them out yeah

Sam Parr

Right away, and they... You think that these are like kinda forgotten things. Same with the Yeti. Yeti was just, you know, everyone has the Coleman cooler growing up. They just made it cool, and they're like 4x more expensive than the nearest competitor. And yet we all do it. And this... what's it called? Ice Barrel dot...

Shaan Puri

They... what's the... basically, if I was going to distill their formula, it's like **double the value, quadruple the price**. Right? Like, that's the way I would describe how they're...

Sam Parr

Doing it, a massive plastic thing. But the reason why it's cool is those trash cans. If you're like a big guy, like I kind of am, you can't push down on the thing; otherwise, it's going to collapse. Yes, and so you get stuck.

Shaan Puri

out of it sucks

Sam Parr

And it's inconvenient... It's not that inconvenient, but it is inconvenient. For the type of person that likes ice baths, if you're going to make it a little bit more convenient and it's $2, I'm like, "Fuck it, whatever." I don't care. Like, $500 or $2,000 is kind of the same thing to me a little bit when it comes to health and fitness, right? So I'll buy it if I'm into that. It doesn't really look that spectacular, but when your product is $2,000, you don't need to sell that many of them. I mean, if you're selling 40 a day, what's that? 40 a day is $80,000 a day in revenue. Times 30, that's $2,400,000 a month, which is $36,000,000 a year. You have to sell very little, and that's kind of why I like this business. I think I talked to him about it. He says it costs a lot of money because it costs them a lot of money. So, it's a pretty interesting business. Are you bullish on that?

Shaan Puri

I love that idea! I wouldn't have been as bullish until I looked at it through this lens. Now I see... now I see the value. The other ideas that I think are like this... So if I was going to be like, "Okay, what else? What else can I do?" We've talked before about saunas. I think saunas are...

Sam Parr

going to

Shaan Puri

saunas are just gonna keep exploding in popularity

Sam Parr

100% agree

Shaan Puri

Joe Rogan is kind of like the LeBron in this case, who's been touting them. But a lot of athletes use saunas.

Sam Parr

I had one

Shaan Puri

a lot of kinda like

Sam Parr

yeah they keep one on amazon for a grand it was called the barcelona

Shaan Puri

Yes, exactly! So, I want... you know, like where is our sauna sponsorship? I'm waiting for my home sauna sponsorship. You know, I think a lot of people are going to install home saunas. There's also like other technologies like that... like I forgot, red light therapy and some other stuff like that. I don't know what they are, but all you gotta do is educate me and then sell me, right? That's what you gotta do if you're [in that business].

Sam Parr

I tried buying a sensory deprivation tank. I used to go to this place in the Mission in San Francisco, and I'd pay $50. You sit in this thing that kind of looks like a tanning bed, and it's filled with water and salt. You just float for like an hour, and it was quite nice. I loved it! I tried to buy one. I was like, "Sure, I've got space. I'll put one in my garage." Then I asked, "How much is it?" It's like $20,000. I mean, it's a f*** ton, and it doesn't have to cost that much money.

Shaan Puri

So, here's the idea: Why is it... I don't need a full-body tank, that works, but if somebody made a dope helmet that was like "go to the place of silence." It's like, you go in this thing and you're not gonna hear a fucking thing, or you're gonna hear specific sounds like... you know, calming sounds, whatever it is. I think somebody could sell a helmet that is gonna basically change your state, sort of like the sensory deprivation idea, but just as a helmet. I think that would be kinda cool as a random idea.

Sam Parr

so ice barrel what else

Shaan Puri

So, we got sauna, we got ice barrel, and we got sensory deprivation. Here's another one I bought: these little inflatable pods. Oh man, I could go pick them up, but they're basically these little inflatable plastic things that I saw LeBron using. LeBron has his warm-ups, and that's become part of the television programming as they show LeBron before the game. What is he doing to get ready? I saw he was always standing on or kneeling on these two little clear plastic things. One time, when he was recovering from injury, the reporter kind of showed that LeBron's been using this thing. It's this instability ball, and the idea is like a Bosu ball. Basically, when you stand on it, it gives you an uneven surface. Most of our weight training is done on flat, hard, stable surfaces. But when you do athletic things, you're not always landing at the exact angle as that. So, he does his training on top of that. He does all his warm-ups there, and it activates all his sort of little micro muscles and microfibers when he just spends time squatting on this, hand standing on this, and balancing on this. The same thing with Steph Curry for his ankles; he does the same thing. I think that little products like that can work. Ben sent me another one of these that's like a medicine ball filled with water. So, you take a traditional piece of equipment like a medicine ball—it's just solid and heavy. When you put water in it and move it from side to side, the water sloshes in that direction. If you're trying to move back, the water is moving one way while you're moving the other. So, it's good resistance training. I think water-based training things, if the athletes are doing that, I think that's kind of interesting. People want to buy what the athletes buy. The other thing is braces: knee braces, ankle braces, shoulder wraps, wrist wraps. You know, anything that is like injury prevention, I think could be sexed up because they are usually pretty basic stuff right now.

Sam Parr

There's a... When you're talking, I'll keep googling, but there's a... So, you know how when you get surgery... Have you ever had... You've never had this, but you know like if you've ever seen your parents or friends get a shoulder surgery? You have to keep your shoulder in this particular type of cast where your arm stays up high.

Shaan Puri

the l yes

Sam Parr

So there's this brand that is a startup that is remaking those [medical devices]. It's called... what was it called? It's like Champion Sports or something. They did a whole thing around these soft casts. So, like when you have a walking boot, they made cool walking boots. That's actually a great one - it's like a cooler walking boot. They built this business all around this, and that's actually really interesting as well.

Shaan Puri

There's a woman, who I don't remember the name of, but I'll try to find it. Maybe we'll put it in the show notes. There's a woman who was a designer of some kind. She got paralyzed and went into a wheelchair. Then she changed her life mission. She designed herself the coolest looking wheelchair that didn't look like, you know, if you're younger, like what you would expect a wheelchair to look like. How do you make a wheelchair look slick? It had cup holders, a place for your phone. It was just nice looking. It wasn't the kind of blue and metal look that you see at a hospital. She just made an awesome looking wheelchair. It's like, "Hey, look, if you're in a wheelchair, okay, but let's make it as good as we can." And she was like, "This is my new life mission." I thought that was pretty great too.

Sam Parr

By the way, it's called Game Ready. Check it out, go to gameready.com. It looks like they were acquired. They were doing $35 million a year when they got acquired. This is the ice thing, yeah. Wow, it only got acquired for $65 million. But yeah, go to Game Ready. They have ice stuff, but they also have like post-surgery equipment. Kind of interesting, right?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so anyways, I think there's an opportunity. The brainstorm would be to go hang out with an athlete. Follow them pregame, postgame, during the game, and during timeouts. Just look for what are all the things that everybody's doing that's unbranded. Then, can you make a higher quality branded version of this? Can you create... you know, can you? Then you use that marketing strategy of the trickle-down effect. You give the athletes the coolest stuff, and other people see it. You sell it to the wannabe athletes. You're not making the money from the athletes themselves; you're making the money off of... right? Like Ice Barrel. What they need is for you to see this in pro locker rooms. Then, they need every high school to be like, "Oh, that's what the Lakers used when they were covering," or "That's what the Patriots use in their locker room."

Sam Parr

Dude, I feel like I gotta email this guy and be like, "Hey, we'll just give you a shout out." We're definitely going to get this guy's sales. It's a small company; I don't think they have more than 2 employees. They're definitely going to see a bump from this, and we're going to have to ask them how many people bought. Because icebarrow.com, just go there right now and buy their stuff. And actually, by the way, it's not $2; I got it wrong. It's $1,200.

Shaan Puri

Yes, $1,200. Yeah, they're like, "Thanks for the shout out, asshole! You made it seem even more expensive than it is."

Sam Parr

I thought it was $2... it's $1,200. Maybe the big one is $2,000. Anyway, it's cool. It's a cool thing. I'm excited to actually see how this works. Their website looks pretty slick. What is this?

Shaan Puri

I know

Sam Parr

this looks great

Shaan Puri

so those are some ideas yeah

Sam Parr

I think that might be it. Peace out! We actually have way more, but we're going to have to save those for later.

Shaan Puri

yeah dan what'd you think

Dan

Yeah, so I like the episode. I like the co-working section. I think you guys bring a unique perspective to that, and having worked in WeWork, it's exciting to know that there are some, I guess, new opportunities and that whole concept isn't going to die with WeWork.

Shaan Puri

what was the what was the absolute best part of the episode

Dan

The best part of the episode... I like the recovery stuff. I have one of the knockoff [massage guns] like Hypervolt or whatever. I like using that. I haven't done an ice barrel before. I have some friends who have done those cold chambers or whatever, where you do like 2 minutes inside.

Shaan Puri

Hey, you know what else blows that up? By the way, Wim Hof has gotten really popular in, like, you know, some niche circles, I guess. But he's all about cold... cold.

Sam Parr

you know cooking

Shaan Puri

so submerging yourself in cold gloves

Sam Parr

would you pay $35100 to go to his house and train with him

Shaan Puri

wim hof

Sam Parr

you can do it maybe I it's something like 2 or 3 or $4,000 I think I would do that

Shaan Puri

It's not the money; it's more the time. Like, yeah, if I had a little bit of time, I would love to do that. That'd be great.