Building A 100+ Year Legacy + Peter Thiel’s Fellowship + Bomb Hiring Questions

Sam Parr

I'm gonna tell you something so I have a family now and do you have a will

Shaan Puri

weird flex alright yes I do have a will

Sam Parr

okay so once I have a family like you start getting into the will stuff right and it's kind of been screwing with me and I read a story last week that has maybe changed my life and I think that if only a couple of listeners actually buy into what I'm buying into this could be like the most life changing thing that we've ever done on this podcast so in the 1800s in sweden there was this guy named alfred and alfred was an inventor and he had a little bit of success where he started inventing some like a bunch of small stuff but then when he was like 30 or 40 he had something that changed his life so he basically found out that nitroglycerin if you mess with it in a certain way you can make it explosive and thus was the creation of dynamite and so it made him incredibly rich so he got super rich he was worth something like the equivalent of 2 or $300,000,000 in today's money and towards the end of his life his brother ludwig died and when his brother died someone ran an obituary for alfred on accident they used the wrong brother and the obituary started with the merchant of death is no longer and they go on to explain how alfred created dynamite and how it was revolutionized the way people were murdered now whether that story is true or false that's actually up for debate no one has disproved it but there's like people are like I'm not sure if that's actually true but that's the story and afterwards alfred changed his life he goes that's that's ridiculous I can't be known as the person who is the merchant of death I have to change this and so 2 years before he died he decided to rewrite his will and he left 95% of his assets towards the foundation where he created the rules and the rules were I'm gonna give and this is I'm using today's money but it's it's the equivalent money back then I'm gonna give $1,000,000 to the person who impacted humanity the most the category that I wanna start with is peace but after peace we're gonna do a few other categories we're gonna do peace we're gonna do chemistry economics and literature and thus became the nobel peace prize and to this day it's lasted for you know a 130 years where they now have like $600,000,000 in assets and the whole.

Sam Parr

Of the foundation, we invest enough money so we are always able to give something like the equivalent of $5,000,000 a year to some type of person who has impacted the world the most. Winners have included groundbreaking figures like Marie Curie, Martin Luther King, and Ernest Hemingway. In a way, this contest has encouraged people. I don't think there are too many individuals doing things just to win the Nobel Peace Prize, but in the back of their heads, they're like, "Yeah, that would be amazing if I could discover something." You know, that's like the ultimate goal: to get a Nobel Peace Prize.

Shaan Puri

like that's like the greatest

Sam Parr

The thing ever. And so it kind of changed my life. By the way, did you know that story? That dynamite story in the Merchant of Death?

Shaan Puri

Not the specifics, but I had heard Peter Thiel talking about this with Joe Rogan. They were discussing the sort of whitewashing of a reputation, and they were talking about Epstein and Bill Gates. Rogan brought up, "That's how the Nobel Prize happened," and then he asked, "Have you heard that?" Peter was like, "Yeah, he's the dynamite guy," but I didn't know anything beyond that. So that's actually pretty cool. I didn't know the "Merchant of Death" obituary story.

Sam Parr

So the truth of it is that dynamite actually wasn't used to kill that many people because of the way it worked. TNT killed a lot of people, but... like, so like...

Shaan Puri

open up caves for mining and shit right

Sam Parr

It was like, so that's where the story is. You know, who knows? But we don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

But what is true is that the Nobel Peace Prize has worked like it’s encouraged people and provided incentives to do stuff.

Shaan Puri

Sorry, so explain the money side of this. So he left how much money to this, and then has it just been draining from that pot, or does new money get injected into the Nobel Prize? Because it's a $1,000,000 per prize, right? Is that right?

Sam Parr

Yeah, and there's five per year. Like, one year during World War II, they were like, "We don't have peace, so we're not going to give a peace prize." So they just didn't give a prize. But in general, every year for the last 120 years, they've done this. The money right now is $612,000,000. It made a 10.7% return on capital in 2023. It's invested in equity funds and hedge funds. The way that it's set up, according to his will, was to make sure that the money never runs dry, so we can always give this away for potentially 100 years.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

And so there's an organization, I think, and you could see what their expenses are. I think their expenses to run this thing are like $3 or $8 million - I forget exactly - a single-digit millions per year to operate. And then they give away roughly $5 million per year.

Shaan Puri

And is this like Forbes 30 Under 30? Or how legit are the winners of the Nobel Peace Prize? Now, I've never paid too much attention to it. Do you have a sense of like, is this high signal?

Sam Parr

or is

Shaan Puri

this like a hijacked thing that now is is is not high signal anymore

Sam Parr

So, in my opinion, it's very high signal. Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King, Marie Curie—these are like legit people who have done it. Now, there have been a few times where they've made mistakes. For example, they have a rule where they actually want to give the award a couple of years after the person made the discovery. In 1926, they gave the award to someone who created this enzyme that cured cancer, and obviously, that wasn't true. But like six months after, they discovered it, they thought it was true. Then, there's the other criticism that they have a liberal bias. They've given one to Barack Obama and, I believe, an Israeli guy once, like a peace award. The people who side with Palestine are like, "What the hell? There's no peace." So, there's criticism sometimes, but in general, it's very well regarded. Although a lot of people will criticize it as being too academic or too liberal, I think it's as legit as it could be.

Shaan Puri

and what what's your take on this so awesome story

Sam Parr

So here's my take: this prize setup is awesome. Let me give you a few examples of this. Inspired by the Nobel Peace Prize, in 1919, there was a guy named Raymond Orteig. I think his name is Raymond Orteig, or let's just call him Orteig. He was like, "Hey, these planes that we've created are pretty amazing, but we're not doing too many great things with them." He goes, "I'm gonna offer $25,000 to anyone out there who can fly from New York City to Paris." This was in 1919. He offered $25,000, which is like $500 today. About eight people signed up, and seven of them failed. In fact, five of them died. Now, who's the one person who made it? Charles Lindbergh. The year after Charles Lindbergh did his flight, it says that airline passengers before he did it that year were 5,000. A few years after, it jumped to 300,000. It completely changed the airline industry because it made a big hoopla and a big deal, whatever. Then, inspired by that prize, this guy named Peter Diamandis... is that his name?

Shaan Puri

yep

Sam Parr

He created this thing called the X Prize, where he said, "I offer $10,000,000." I think the rules were that anyone who could fly a rocket into space, bring it back down, and then two weeks later, it goes right back into space would win. So, it was about reusable rockets. Elon Musk, at the time, I think SpaceX was two years old. He said the X Prize basically helped create the commercial space industry. It showed that you didn't have to be a giant aerospace company to make progress in space, and it definitely influenced the direction I took with SpaceX. So, this was a big deal for space.

Shaan Puri

And now, the genius of the XPRIZE was that by putting up $10,000,000—and then I think it became $20,000,000 for the prize—people would, like, a bunch of 20 teams would invest $2,000,000 each in trying to develop the thing to win the $10,000,000 prize. So you would get $40,000,000 invested for a $10,000,000 prize. It was a kind of genius way to spur innovation and investment. Not just people who want to win the prize, because that's obvious; put a prize up and people will try to go win it. But actually, in the act of winning it, more dollars got poured in because they saw a clear return. The math worked out where, "Oh wow, I get leverage. My ten actually becomes a hundred invested in this mission if I get enough interest around it."

Sam Parr

Along with the PR, along with the want to just win and to make this exciting, it works. So now there's a SpaceX prize that Elon has funded where it's $100,000,000 for someone who, by 2030, can remove a certain amount of carbon from the planet or something like that. It's still ongoing. Here's another example: Do you know what DARPA is? Have you heard of DARPA? It stands for Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. Have you heard of that?

Shaan Puri

weren't they like responsible for creating the internet

Sam Parr

They've done a bunch of stuff. In 2003, they created this thing called the Grand Prize. The idea was to have a 150-mile road trip or route, and the first person who could create an autonomous vehicle that could drive that route would win $1,000,000. Around 106 teams applied, and for a little while, no one succeeded. But then a team did it, and that was the first time we ever used Lidar, which is a type of self-driving technology that many cars have. It already existed, but it was applied to cars for the first time ever, and it was very successful. There's actually a guy who I think you might know. His name is Nat Friedman.

Shaan Puri

He's a really good guy to follow, a really interesting guy. He's doing a lot of stuff with AI investing right now, and I know about this prize that he's got. It's really cool.

Sam Parr

I believe it's... what's the right phrase? Is it Herculanean text? So basically, I think it was like one of the... There's an explosion in Italy, you know, Mount Vesuvius. Yeah, Mount Vesuvius exploded and all of these ancient Greek texts got basically ruined. He [presumably referring to someone offering a prize] puts up a prize where if you can create... You basically have to use machine learning. If you can create this algorithm that can help him dissect or decipher parts of the text, he'll give you a prize.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so it's like a scroll that has been almost sealed. You can't unscroll it; you can just read it. What they're using is computer vision to try to analyze it from the outside. They look at the little bits you can see and try to figure out what was written. I think this is going to be like the earliest written text or something like that. I forgot; I don't know the details. Somebody could go look this up, but I remember hearing about this and thinking, "Wow, this is so cool!" He sort of found this thing that nobody was going to justify the investment it would take to see this because you also don't know what's inside. You don't know if there's anything interesting inside necessarily. He decided to fund this competition, and I guess what happened recently was somebody figured out how to read a bit of it. They actually had a breakthrough in the Vesuvius Prize, where someone figured out how to read a little bit of the scroll using some stupidly simple technique of computer vision.

Sam Parr

alright guys really quick so back when I was running the hustle we had this premium newsletter called trends the way it worked was we hired a ton of analysts and we created this sort of playbook for researching different companies and ideas and emerging trends to help you make money and build businesses well hubspot did something kind of cool so they took this playbook that we developed and we gave to our analysts and they turned it into an actionable guide and a resource that anyone can download and it breaks down all the different methods that we use for spotting upcoming trends for spotting different companies that are gonna explode and grow really quickly it's pretty awesome that they took this internal document that we have for teaching our analysts how to do this into a tool and are giving it away for free that anyone can download so if you want to stay ahead of the game and you want to find cool business ideas or different niches that most people have no idea they exist this is the ultimate guide so if you want to check it out you can see the link down below in the description now back to the show yeah and so it's still a thing by the way and like people are still getting after it and then the last thing is there's this thing called kaggle kaggle competitions yeah where it was a startup that raised $12,000,000 it was eventually bought by Google according to their website they've had 19,000,000 engineers compete in their competitions and if you're a company you could put a bounty out there and people will compete to win it so for example you remember Microsoft connect like the camera that you put on your xbox that it could like watch you play and somehow interact with that I believe was heavily developed by one of these competitions but then they do other things for hiv research and things like that where this gamifying system has actually contributed to like big important problems and so all of this to say when you're thinking about or when I'm thinking about when I die what will happen to money you know you think about giving away to family you think about just like traditional giving away do you just do you just wire it to someone and hope they do well I'm incredibly fascinated and interested in these competitions and they don't all need to be huge I think there's one guy who you particularly like aubrey the great where he has a $25,000 a year if you come with some interesting breakthrough on longevity he will give you $25 and then you get you get to go meet with him and so sometimes they're huge sometimes they're not huge but I think this is like so much more leverage and the publicity and the the wanting to win it seems so much more better for society to do a contest and it's also more work but than just giving do you know what I mean

Shaan Puri

Ah, 100%! I love this topic, and there's a bunch of interesting angles. By the way, can I read you the Vesuvian thing? Because I think it's pretty fascinating. Yeah, yeah. They were able to take 4 passages with 140 characters each and get 85% of the characters readable or recoverable.

Sam Parr

and is it just someone's like grocery list

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. And they use, you know, AI... blah blah blah. I don't know all the details of this. He did a good podcast with Ben Thompson on Stratechery. That's where I heard him talking about this. I wish I knew what we're talking about so I could have looked it up, but I heard this like 6 months ago. I was getting a haircut. I thought it was pretty fascinating. So, what did the Scrolls say?

Sam Parr

so do you get a haircut when you have earbuds in your ears

Shaan Puri

I won't go to a barbershop if they don't let me listen to something while while I'm getting my haircut

Sam Parr

oh my god alright

Shaan Puri

like if they try talking I'm just like enough what's happening

Sam Parr

just can't

Shaan Puri

Hear this... and by the way, it falls out like 4 times during every haircut and I'm like, "Oh sorry, could you get that?" And they're like, "Dude, this is annoying." That's why I started having a hair guy come to my house and just do it there so I could just listen on blast. But then I felt kinda weird because he was also listening to these like old Max Levchin talks from like 2002 and he's like, "What? Who is this? Why is this guy talking about like the future of the internet?" I'm like, "Yeah... yeah, it's before the internet was like that huge of a deal."

Sam Parr

God, that's so rude! But whatever, we'll just... oh, so rude. Well, back to the scrolls.

Shaan Puri

It's like going to a sports bar. I don't want to talk to the bartender; I want to watch the game. That's what I'm trying to do, right? I'm the customer, and the customer is having an experience that they want. To date, our efforts have managed to unroll and read about 5% of the first scroll. That's the amount of headway that they've made so far. The general subject of the text is pleasure, which, properly understood, is the highest good in their philosophy. The two snippets are talking about pleasure. One author thinks that, in the case of food, we do not right away believe things that are scarce to be absolutely more pleasant than those that are abundant. I don't know what's going on, but it's supposed to be a philosophy text. Okay, so that's pretty cool. Can I tell you about my take on this? Early on in the podcast, I think I had one of the ideas, which was the XPRIZE for companies. I realized that a lot of companies, when I was inside of Twitch after we got acquired, were trying to build things internally. However, they didn't have the best team on it, the best focus, or their highest sense of urgency. Then you have startups that often have really high-caliber teams, small groups of people, and super high urgency and motivation. It's their baby, so they treat it like life or death. In a company, you're not going to treat it that way. I thought, well, in the end, we ended up getting acquired for a small to medium acquisition. I was like, you know, if I had just known upfront that they would be willing to pay for this, we could have built it better and faster, knowing that there was an eight-figure payday on the other side of this. They would have also happily said, "Cool, whoever can make the best version of this, you get this money, and we don't have to fund internal product development and have one shot on goal." So I was like, why wouldn't a company...?

Sam Parr

that's a good idea

Shaan Puri

Just said $10,000,000 for the person who could build the best team that could create the best "X." The conditions are: if you hit it, we have the first right to buy it. You can't sell it to anybody else. We get to hire you and the team, and you guys will come on for it. Basically, it earns out over two years. Here’s the scope of what we want, so you're not guessing, "Oh, will Facebook want to buy us?" It's like, no, no, Facebook's telling you what they want. Then you get 25 teams to go try to be the winners of that prize. Because, hey, you actually don't need venture capital. You're like, "Hey, we're going to take nine months and try to build this thing and try to win the prize." I feel like that should exist. I'm surprised that it doesn't exist. That was the first idea. The second is, I actually tried this. Did I ever tell you about the prize we created for Milk Road? No? So when we were doing Milk Road, we were like, "Alright, it's pretty clear that in crypto, there's the money use case," which is, "Hey, just save your money in Bitcoin or a currency that cannot inflate." It's not designed for inflation, and so I get that use case. But then people were talking about Web 3. It's going to change everything. You're going to have all these decentralized apps, social decentralized apps where you own your content—all this crazy stuff, right? But nobody actually had built any of them. It was just a bunch of VCs talking about it in circles.

Sam Parr

or lame white papers whatever the hell that is

Shaan Puri

Yeah, white papers and like the same thing with funding. But, like, they didn't build a prototype, and nobody would use it, right? So, we came up with an idea. We were like, "Hey, how do we have Milk Road? If we're this crypto newsletter and we believe in crypto, why don't we create our own little grant?" So, we created a grant called the Milk Money Grant. We were like, "This is not enough to get rich, but it's a little bit of milk money, right? It's enough where you can justify spending like 2 or 3 months on a project." It was 1 ETH, which at the time was like maybe $2,000 or $3,000. We had, I think, over 2,000 submissions. We said you could build whatever you want, some use case or application of crypto. In the end, we picked 10 or 12 people, so we gave away probably what is that, like $36,000? We just used our ad revenue money to pay that out. We treated it as an expense of the business. Then, we got to meet these people, and they were super interesting, young, high-caliber individuals that were building really interesting things. Even though they were probably already making more than $2,000 or $3,000 in their jobs, it just felt like a Rhodes Scholarship. It felt like they got accepted and were getting paid to do something. They had an excuse to go and scratch this itch. That's the way we framed it: "What's an itch you want to scratch? It doesn't need to be the biggest project, but something you want to see built that you want to use. What would it be?" Then, people built all kinds of things. It was a fantastic experience. It was honestly really, really awesome. I forgot about it until now, actually. It's something I want to do again. I have a couple of ideas of what I might do with it.

Sam Parr

do you wanna talk about those or no

Shaan Puri

I have a specific idea that I want to fund. Maybe it's not even going to be that big of a business, so it might just be a philanthropic way. But it's my version of the Young Hustlers Grant. The other day, I was sitting around thinking about my time in college because I have a cousin who just got accepted into college—two cousins, actually. They were like, "Whoa, what advice do you have?" I was like, "Well, what do you want? Do you know what you want, or do you not know what you want?" If you don't know what you want, you should just spend that time dabbling. Go meet a bunch of people, try a bunch of things, shadow a bunch of people, and try to figure out what the menu even is. Maybe think about what type of stuff you like: seafood, steak, chicken, salads... what do you want? One of them was like, "I know what I want. I want to be an entrepreneur." I was like, "Cool!" He said, "That's why I'm doing this business program." I replied, "Awesome! But they're not going to teach you how to be an entrepreneur in college. That's not what's actually going to happen there." I know what you're thinking; it's the same thing I thought. If I go to school and get a business degree, then I will... you know.

Sam Parr

to run a business and start

Shaan Puri

A business... how to start a business and run a business. He's like, "No, that's not at all what you're gonna get out of that." So I said, "Here's the best thing you can do." I said, "Actually, this is something that every college campus could have, and I think it is the best college campus business that I can think of for somebody like me." So if you're listening to this podcast, maybe you're wired like me or Sam, and that is to create the Onion for your campus. Here's why: I don't know about you, but when I was in college, the campus paper was like a big deal. Maybe now, with smartphones being awesome and social media, maybe this is dead, and I'm a boomerang.

Sam Parr

there no it's still around because you love to read about yourself and your friends

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. You want to know what's going on on your campus—what's the news, what happened with your teams, etc. Also, there was the procrastination element of it, where there’s Sudoku, crosswords, and other things you could do while you’re in class. At my school, Duke, everybody read the Duke Chronicle. I never thought about it; I didn't even know who wrote it. I didn't even consider what was going on there. But if I was smart, what I would have done is say, "I'm actually going to create a little business here on campus. I'm going to create a Duke newspaper." But of course, the first rule of business is that different is better than better. So, I'm not going to create just another school newspaper that's reporting just the facts. I'm going to create *The Onion* for my campus.

Sam Parr

so it's

Shaan Puri

Basically, it's a satirical news newspaper. This will teach me a bunch of skills. So, I'll get the skills of creating a business. How do you start a business? I'll gain skills in content creation, such as copywriting, humor, creating a content schedule, and managing a content pipeline. I'll also learn about hiring and firing people, getting ad sales, and ad revenue distribution. How am I going to get people to read this? There's product differentiation, marketing, and naming the thing. It's the perfect type of business for college because it's a sandbox. I think one pressure a lot of people have when they're in college and they want to be an entrepreneur is that they try to think of businesses that are like the ones they read about on TechCrunch or they...

Sam Parr

see yeah like big money making things

Shaan Puri

"Yeah, I'm gonna create the next big thing." That's really hard, and it's also important to remember you're a beginner - you're a white belt. So you don't necessarily go look at the moves that black belts do. Maybe learn the best white belt moves instead. You need a white belt business. For me, that was my virtual sushi restaurant thing. Yours was like the hot dog thing, and then your college booze business or whatever, right? We had little starter businesses that themselves weren't meant to last, but they teach you a whole bunch of core building block skills. When you lump these skills together, it's this thing called "business."

Sam Parr

so you're gonna encourage them to create the onion for college

Shaan Puri

Exactly. So, I want basically people who are... I don't know how many college kids listen to this, to be honest. But if you are, or you have a kid in college, I want a hustler on every campus. So, like one hustler to create their version of the campus paper. I gotta figure out the details, but I'm down to basically put in some amount of money, like $10 or $15, to kickstart people on this thing. I don't think it'll take much money; I think $10 will be more than enough to start these on several campuses. I think they should become self-sustaining cash flow businesses from there. And I think that the people who run these will be way far ahead. People don't even know, like for example, Barstool. Do you know how Barstool started?

Sam Parr

a physical paper that he like gave to colleges right

Shaan Puri

Not colleges exactly, but yeah, in Boston he would... So it was basically a physical newspaper that Dave would write under, I think, pen names. You can go find it on the internet - the font is so funny, it's like Comic Sans.

Sam Parr

I think he even bought or reused other people's newspapers, like the free newspapers that you pull out. You know, the... yeah, if you pull out that piece of glass and then you can grab one. You know what I'm saying? I think...

Shaan Puri

he he bought it

Sam Parr

He, I think, bought a few of his own and he literally placed them on corners where it was like the box. Yeah, yeah, you know, like those free newspaper things.

Shaan Puri

And it was mostly a gambling newspaper. He called it a "gambling rag." What he would do is, in the morning, he would write the content, get it printed, and then, sorry, the previous night, he would write the content, get it printed, and then in the morning, he would rush into the subway. He'd just be handing it out to people getting on the subway in Boston or whatever the underground is there. That's how Barstool got its initial distribution. Then he would hand them out all day. After that, he would go home and call advertisers to try to get enough money to print the thing again. He would write the content under all of his pen names and work on his copywriting skills. Then he would get them printed and figure out how to manufacture a product. The next day, he would go distribute it again. Over time, he got other people to hand them out, other people to write the content, and other people to do the ad sales. It became Barstool, which is this, you know, many hundred million dollar company for Dave, but that's how it started.

Sam Parr

That's amazing! Yeah, you should go, the listener. You guys should go on Google and see the early ones. It's pretty hilarious.

Shaan Puri

So, I'm thinking about, after this, I'm going to put up a Google Doc. That's my call to action. I'm going to create a Google Doc to figure out what my actual rules are, who I'm looking for, and how to apply. In the show notes of this thing, I'm just going to make an open document that anybody can read and submit to. I'm also going to think of a name because I think the name matters. I'm going to treat it like a franchise, so every campus will have the same naming convention. Then, we'll share the learning. If you're the kid at Northwestern and some kid at Duke comes up with a good distribution idea, we're just going to make one group chat where all the people are sharing what's working and what's not. I'm really curious to see what happens. To me, this is my version of the lemonade stand—it's like the slightly superior lemonade stand type of business that I think would be great. I wish I had done this in college.

Sam Parr

So I'll take my bow because I have successfully, potentially rather, proven that this idea might be one of the bigger ones that we've ever talked about. It's actually quite exciting. Even when you're talking $10, $10,000, and a newspaper, which is like a silly thing, but it's awesome. Like, that's awesome! And that's kind of the point with this: when you repackage charity or whatever you want to call this into a game, it kind of makes it exciting. It makes it fun. It makes it cool.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, what's the name for this sort of action philanthropy? It's like it's not charity for the completely impoverished, but you are giving people both inspiration, maybe capital, and an excuse to go and better their lives or improve their lives... live up to their potential. Like take the next step. Is there a name for this where you're not... it's not starving kids in Africa, but it is, you know, kind of broke college kids who now have something to get excited about? What would you... is there a name for something like that?

Sam Parr

I gotta think about it, but in my head, I've been calling it **incentivized philanthropy**. That's too much of a mouthful.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

So we have to think about it. What this really comes down to is just a slight difference in incentivization has a massive difference in the outcome. Versus just giving versus "No, only one of you are going to get this and you all gotta get after it."

Shaan Puri

So there's a few versions of this, by the way, that I've thought about in the past. When the Thiel Fellowship came out, I thought it was genius. Peter Thiel basically had this view that universities are a bubble, and that we... they have this halo, this umbrella where you can never criticize a university. "College? What? Education? It's the most important thing for our kids! How dare you!"

Sam Parr

I thought it was crazy when I heard about it

Shaan Puri

He's like, "Education might be the fifth thing that they do." He called it a "bundle," and I forgot what he bundled it as, but he was like, "It's an insurance policy for the parent. You make sure your kid gets this degree because that is my kid's not gonna fall through the cracks of society insurance." He's like, "And then it's a filtering process." For companies, they don't care what you learned at Harvard, but if Harvard did a good job filtering, then I already know I'm picking from the smarter end of the crop when it comes to hiring. So, it's a filtering bundle. It's a social piece that's part of the bundle. Then there's the education component that's part of the bundle. He had like five or six things that he said were all part of it. He's like, "What's gonna happen is people are gonna unbundle the bundle." So what he did was come out and say, "I think universities are such a waste that if you're a high-potential person, I will come out with the Thiel Fellowship. I will pay you $120, I think it was, to drop out of college. If you're in college, I will pay you to drop out." And Peter Thiel, for all of his very unsmooth, uncharismatic ways of speaking, the guy is kind of a master of communication if you just don't make him speak, give a talk, and you're not looking at the poetry of it.

Sam Parr

The full picture is that if you read an article about his presentation and see the quotes, it's the best.

Shaan Puri

It's the best, and by the way, Peter Thiel literally has speechwriters. So when he goes on tour and gives his speech "Universities are a bubble," it's not that he just said that off the cuff. It's like he has a point of view that actually there's something going on with universities, and it's sort of a weird thing going on. That's what he does, and then his speechwriters are like, "So are you saying that universities are a bubble?"

Sam Parr

yeah yep nailed it

Shaan Puri

Cool headline. Alright, great. What's the subhead? And so he gets it basically workshopped himself and his team, and then he literally goes on tour. He's done this a couple times. He did it with the "0 to 1" thing, which is that... and he uses a provocative statement. So he says, "Universities are a bubble." He [uses] something that he knows is gonna basically be a head-turner. You're saying...

Sam Parr

or this have

Shaan Puri

a new thing

Sam Parr

mba students are have negative impacts on new companies

Shaan Puri

Yeah, or he'll say, "By the time the MBAs are in, the alpha is gone." Right? Like once the MBAs are flooding into a space, the opportunity is gone. But the bigger one that he did was when he did his book "Zero to One." He went on tour instead of saying, "Buy my book, I'm Peter Thiel, I've had great business success, I've shared some of my lessons."

Sam Parr

was it competition is bad

Shaan Puri

competition is for losers

Sam Parr

yeah okay

Shaan Puri

And he's like, "Oh, this idea in capitalism that competition brings out the best in us? No, competition is for losers." He said the only goal of a business is to shoot for monopoly. "Oh, monopoly? I thought that's illegal. You literally get broken up if you're in a monopoly." He's like, "Exactly." So he finds the head-turning thing, and when he has it, he builds a pretty convincing case. He did this with the Thiel Fellowship, and he paid kids to drop out of school. Wow, what a... what's the worst influence you could have on my child? It's convincing them to drop out of school, drop out of their education.

Sam Parr

how many kids a year do it do you know

Shaan Puri

I remember I hosted them at my office, I think the first or second year of the Thiel Fellowship. There were like 20 kids in it, ish... maybe more. So, these 20 like 19-year-olds or 18-year-olds were at my office, and I was like, "Hey, who are you guys? What are you doing?" They're like, "Oh, we don't know." It was super disorganized, by the way, and Peter Thiel was not there.

Sam Parr

Alright, so I applied. I applied, and one of Peter Thiel's team members selects however many people you said—6 or 8 people.

Shaan Puri

mhmm

Sam Parr

they wire you the money and they just said do they say come back to me with 3 months with the thing

Shaan Puri

No, no. At the time, I don't know what it is now, but at the time you got accepted, you would drop out. They'd give you the money, you would come to San Francisco, and you would participate in the batch. So you would...

Sam Parr

did you live there

Shaan Puri

I don't know if you lived together, but they all showed up in my office. So they were definitely there for at least a period of time. I'm not sure if it was the whole program or what, but it was pretty open-ended and it was long.

Sam Parr

does a $100 go towards starting your company or is it a $100,000 + 3 months of rent

Shaan Puri

It's a 2-year, $100,000 grant for young people who want to build new things instead of sitting in a classroom. Nice! 20 or 30 people per year. You've got to be 22 or younger to do it. You'll need to drop out [of school] in order to have it. You don't have to move to San Francisco, and an idea is enough. That was the idea of it. It's been going for... I don't know, 10 years now.

Sam Parr

So, here are some of the notable recipients: - The CEO and founder, Dylan Field, of Figma, which is a **$50 billion** company. I think it's in the tens of billions range. - Then there's Oyo Rooms, which was like a hotel-style startup out of India that was also worth many, many billions. - Austin Russell, the guy who created Luminar Technologies, which I think made him the youngest billionaire ever. It focuses on self-driving technology. - Of course, there's the founder of Ethereum, which is worth who knows how many hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in value creation. - Then there's the founder of Loom, which I didn't know about, a startup that was acquired for hundreds of millions of dollars. - Josh Bauter from DoNotPay, which I love. There are also other initiatives that I don't even know about because they may not be for profit. For example, there's a guy who created software to detect Parkinson's disease. There are a handful of recipients like that who are maybe behind the scenes doing amazing stuff. I guess he probably didn't do it for money, but if he wanted to, there was a return on it. There's definitely a return on encouraging value creation.

Shaan Puri

Right, oh yeah. I mean, if even one of those... if just Ethereum had come out of it, I mean, smashing success. So if just Figma had come out of it, smashing success, right? Those are like the two power law winners of the thing. By the way, go to muskfoundation.org because I just saw that Elon Musk was the biggest donor. He donated, I think, $2,000,000 to that Vesuvian Challenge. So Daniel Gross and Nat Friedman put up $2K, and the Musk Foundation put up $2,000,000. Describe what you see.

Sam Parr

Alright, so MuskFoundation.org. It's a website with no design. It's a blank piece of paper with 5 bullet points, and it says: Musk Foundation grants are made in support of: - Renewable energy - Human space exploration - Pediatric research - Science and engineering education - Development of artificial intelligence to benefit humanity That's it.

Shaan Puri

it's like a hello world page yeah

Sam Parr

It's basically a 100-word bullet point list on a white piece of paper.

Shaan Puri

And this is one of the extreme examples: you know, "money talks, wealth whispers."

Sam Parr

Yeah, I see it. *Sexy indifference* - that's what we're gonna call this. Where you want people to know that you don't care, but you also want them to know that you don't care because you're cool.

Shaan Puri

yes

Sam Parr

so I'm gonna call it sexy indifference

Shaan Puri

it's the homeless billionaire paradox right

Sam Parr

yeah yeah yeah

Shaan Puri

The difference between a homeless man and a billionaire, at face value, is so small in San Francisco. You will not be able to tell the difference, right? It's...

Sam Parr

The takeaway being, sometimes you could just be **sexy** and **different** in the very beginning, and you become successful. Like, you could just... but so we're gonna call it **sexy** and **different**.

Shaan Puri

I saw a LinkedIn profile the other day that was... no profile photo, one-line bio, one job experience: "26 years, owner." And I was like, "Here's a man who's gonna leave a lot of money for his children." Yes, I can tell you that right now. I don't know anything about this company, never heard of this guy, but I can tell you right now: this guy's gonna leave a lot of money to his children. You don't get "26 years, owner" with no profile photo on LinkedIn... that's like such a high-signal thing to do.

Sam Parr

or at worst he owns a really nice lake house

Shaan Puri

Or again, he's broke. He's homeless. We don't actually know. There is a possibility he could go either way, but it's one way or the other.

Sam Parr

by the

Shaan Puri

way I bought the peter thiel shirt from the joe rogan podcast I'm gonna wear it next week on the pod

Sam Parr

it was like a $120 shirt right

Shaan Puri

The all-white mesh net Peter Thiel shirt from Saxon's Ave... I'm just teasing it right now. Subscribe on YouTube and you'll get to see me wearing that. I don't think it's made for hairy people; mesh usually is not a great choice for us. But yeah, I think my eye appeal will go up like 6 or 7 points if I wear it.

Sam Parr

You're gonna look like human Velcro with all these little threads sticking out. I saw people talking about his shirt; I thought it was pretty funny. He also had the Nazi haircut, which is totally in. It's like... you do a high fade, and he looked good. Yeah, he looked good. I thought he looked great. He looked great, he looked good. He had a little lizard.

Shaan Puri

But other than that, he seems to be on like kind of a rejuvenation kick.

Sam Parr

Well, he's... I mean, how old is he? He's like 56. He's alright. He can look 56, but he looks great. He looks a little bit younger than 56. If you've heard of cool contests like this or even a cool name for what this is called, tweet at me. I'm @thesam_parr because this stuff is very fascinating to me. I'm trying to understand the economics of it because I think I might actually do it.

Shaan Puri

so are you going 5050 with me on the the msm scholarship

Sam Parr

I'm not willing to commit to that yet. I hear you, but I'm trying to do it. Look, I'm a slower person than you. I'm thinking like the par family: where is it gonna go?

Shaan Puri

oh dude the par floor you use a golf pun it's pretty

Sam Parr

simple I gotta figure out something what did you call it par four

Shaan Puri

yeah the par four

Sam Parr

But you, I can't decide if you want to go cheeky or like extra serious. Like when you look at the Nobel Peace Prize, they're wearing those suits with the tails, you know what I mean?

Shaan Puri

Well, you know how it is. You're... you know what you're gonna do. You're gonna go cheeky on the front end and deadly serious on the execution. I feel like that's you.

Sam Parr

I think that's what we might do, but... like I told you, we had the conversation with my wife. I'm like, "Should we do something like this? What are we gonna do?" Right now, I'm... dude, I'm always obsessed with single motherhood because... like, have you ever... has your wife... whenever you gotta be a single parent for the day, like when your wife's gone or whatever? I'm like, "This is impossible!"

Shaan Puri

yeah it's impossible

Sam Parr

it's not I'm like how do you

Shaan Puri

it actually can't be done so that's my takeaway

Sam Parr

So I'm like, if you're a single mother, how do you get ahead? You know, if you want to... it's like a cycle. So anyway, I'm obsessed with that problem right now. I'm trying to figure out how we could contribute to making those people's lives better. Alright, what do you want to do?

Shaan Puri

I'll give you a simple, useful lesson learned from Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. Somebody asked Elon about hiring. They said, "Elon, when you interview people, what do you ask them? How does Elon Musk filter for great talent?" Have you ever seen what he said?

Sam Parr

No, I... Well, I've heard one thing where he says: > "If I'm talking to someone and, like, you know, every once in a while, like 45 seconds in, you could be like 'Oh, this is a bad match,' I just act on that. So like, 60 seconds in, I'll just be like, 'Hey, I don't want to talk anymore,'" and he just walks away. It's like his version of getting a haircut with headphones in.

Shaan Puri

yeah let me

Sam Parr

let me just he's like no

Shaan Puri

So, what he said was, "Tell me about the toughest problems you've dealt with and how you dealt with those at your last company or project." He goes, "I like this question because it filters out candidates who haven't actually done anything. You can ask them very detailed questions about it, and they will know the answer. Whereas the person who was not actually responsible for doing the thing won't know the details. So, it's a very quick filtering mechanism." Other questions that came from other people: Steve Jobs used to ask, "Why are you here?" He said, "I want to understand their motivation. Why are you even at this interview? Why this company? Why this job? Why you?" This is the most important thing that Steve Jobs said. I know that Jeff Bezos asked a question about, "Do you consider yourself a lucky person?"

Sam Parr

I was going to say, I interviewed with **Joe Gebbia**, the founder of Airbnb. He was like the last person in, just 15 minutes, and the only question he asked me was: > "On a scale of 1 to 10, how lucky are you?"

Shaan Puri

and what'd you say

Sam Parr

I said, "I'm a 9." I go, "You know, I'm lucky for a variety of reasons," and I explained them. Then I said, "I don't know if it's luck or what it is, but I seem to get my way a lot." He asked why, and I said, "Why'd you ask that?" He replied, "Well, because if luck's real, I want to be around lucky people. And even if it's not real, I want to be around people who tend to get their way."

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly

Sam Parr

and I was like alright that's I guess that's good

Shaan Puri

So, Dan Rose, who worked for Bezos in the early days, I think from 1999 to 2006.

Sam Parr

so he's a fun person to read about

Shaan Puri

Yeah, he's a good follow on Twitter as well because he shares some good personal stories from the Bezos era. So, he's...

Sam Parr

it'll be like in 99 we were struggling with this and we were sitting at our office and and he's doing sitting

Shaan Puri

In the stairwell, because we didn't have time to make desks, it was like, "Oh, nice." So he goes, "Jeff Bezos' favorite interview question was, 'Are you a lucky person?'" It was a great way to filter for optimists and people who manifest success. He said that if you're a successful, optimistic person, the humble leader's right answer for this starts with, "I'm the luckiest person on earth. I've worked really hard to get where I am, but a lot of things had to go right for me, and I've taken full advantage of my luck." That's essentially, not the exact words, but that is the crux of what you want them to say, which is, "I've worked really hard, but it took a tremendous amount of luck, and I take advantage of lucky breaks when they present themselves to me." He goes on to say that sorting for optimistic people is a good proxy for leadership potential and likelihood of success. Perceiving yourself as lucky is a proxy for optimism. Basically, people will always tell you they're optimistic about things, but they won't always say that they're lucky. So it's kind of like a stealth question to get at the optimism thing because the humility part is also important. It's easy to filter out false humility; humble brags are very obvious when you ask follow-up questions. He says this isn't the only question, but it's a conversation starter and opens the door to someone's personality beyond their resume. There are two wrong answers: 1. "No, I've never really gotten lucky, but I've been able to overcome and outwork all the bad things that happened to me." 2. "No, I never needed luck because I'm better, smarter, stronger, faster than everybody else."

Sam Parr

And there's a third answer, which is like, "No, I've been pretty unlucky." In which case, it's like... I don't want to be around unlucky people. I've done it. Yeah, like I don't want to be around you. Exactly, and that's what Joe told me. He was like, "If you're really lucky, you're either: 1. Luck's real, in which case I want to be around you, or 2. You just make it work." And if you say you're a 1 or a 2 [on the luck scale], you're either: 1. Unlucky (if luck's real), in which case I don't want to be around that... or 2. You just think you're a victim, and I don't want to be around that either. So that's how he explained it to me.

Shaan Puri

have you and I and

Sam Parr

I thought it was weird, by the way. I thought it was weird at the time. Looking back, I think it was better. I actually interviewed at Google years ago. They asked me like, "How many days would it take you to clean the windows on a skyscraper?" or something like that. I didn't like that question... I *hated* that question.

Shaan Puri

Me too. One thing about interview questions is that another way to think about them is that they're meant to filter out certain people and pull in others. A great interview question will not just assess the person; it will either attract or repel the wrong cultural fit. I think one of the reasons I would hate that question is that it's part of the reason they don't want to hire me. They want basically puzzle-solving nerds. I heard this put really well by Max Levchin, the creator of PayPal. He was talking about how, when he got acquired by Google, he wondered, "How do they retain smart people here?" They were trying to hire the most brilliant people on earth, yet they were telling them to "go tweak the knob on Google AdSense" to get a little edge. He said, "Not only is that soulless, but it is literally almost the definition of a cog in the machine." The way they keep those people around is interesting. He mentioned that literally in the bathrooms, they would have really hard puzzles on the stalls. They would give people like a crazy amount of freedom, such as 20% time, which was time to work on whatever they wanted. He said they would have puzzles on the walls in the stalls because the actual work they needed you to do wasn't mission-driven enough or intellectually stimulating. So, they had all these other ways to intellectually stimulate you and coddle you. They would say, "We'll do your laundry, we'll feed you, we'll nurse you. There's a sponge bath over there on the right." They did everything they could to keep talent there. One of the things he talked about was that the PayPal Mafia is probably the most successful early group of people to come together in Silicon Valley. They created, you know, they had Elon Musk, they had Peter Thiel, they had Max Levchin. They went on to create, I don't know, 10 or 100 billion-dollar companies out of the first 15 people there.

Sam Parr

like the the smallest things of the paypal mafia was like yelp

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly like the guy at yelp is like you know sitting at the kids' table at their weekend no offense jeremy he's he's a good dude so so the thing with paypal was they treated it they go they go we're trying to create a cult they go the idea of diversity is not what you want at a startup now you couldn't really say this today but they're on the record of saying this a long time ago which is that you want a certain type of person because that breeds a certain type of culture so you you know pick the culture and then you only wanna attract people that are gonna like reinforce that culture and you wanna like immediately like repel otherwise smart people who would dilute that culture and so for him I remember there was a famous one which was you they were interviewing an engineer and the guy said you know they're like what do you like to do outside of work and he's like oh I love playing basketball and they vatsch is like I don't wanna hire this guy like what because he plays basketball he's like I've never met a great engineer who love who says he loves to play pickup hoops he's like great engineers have other hobbies and he's like and he's like even if we're wrong it's the thing that monesh said on the podcast monesh babbay said when he met warren buffett he goes warren you're a great judge of people how do you do it man how did you get your people radar so good he goes I I don't think I have a good people radar he goes what I have is a very tight filter he goes so so if you take me to a cocktail party and you let me talk to a 100 people for 5 minutes each in that 5 minutes I could probably take the the worst 5 or 7 people and I'll tell you these people are lousy don't hire them and the best 5 or 7 people I could probably tell you them is like and then the other you know 85 90 people I I don't know I couldn't make a judgment on them in 5 minutes it wasn't obvious to me so I put them all in the no pile and he goes well isn't that like a little harsh you know there was there might be some great people there he goes yeah but the cost of bringing a not great person into my circle of life is so high the cost of discarding somebody who might be great is nothing is a lot is so low comparatively he's like so I am willing to be a very harsh grader of people meaning you're either obviously in or I put you in the too hard to tell bucket and I just lump you in with all the obvious noes and that was a non obvious insight from warren buffett

Sam Parr

That's a very interesting point. There are freaks like Peter Thiel or Mark Zuckerberg who kind of nailed that harshness early on. Then, there are normal people like me, and I'm sure you were like this too. You find a 22-year-old, and you think, "I don't know, maybe they're promising. Maybe they were nervous at that interview." It feels good to give the underdog a shot. Oftentimes, that narrative doesn't end the way you'd like it to end. For example, the people for whom that underdog narrative has worked for me include someone like Steph Smith. Let's hypothetically say she didn't do well in the interview, but she was so awesome because I saw her blog. I'm like, "This person is quirky and interesting."

Shaan Puri

it a hypothetical there as if anybody's gonna believe that was a hypothetical

Sam Parr

Well, no, what I mean is like, I think she... I don't remember the interview, but I think she did great. I was into her because I just read her blog. I'm like, "Oh, you have some type of it factor." Now, maybe I wasn't sure how that it factor could be deployed or used to my benefit, or whether it was going to be used—like if she was actually going to become the best at blogging or if she was going to become the best businesswoman. I'm not sure, but there was some type of kernel of fire. There was a fire where I'm like, "I don't know how I'm going to harness it," but there was something there. Whereas I've hired a lot of people who didn't exactly have that. They didn't have a fire there, but I was like, "Maybe it's there." I make these stupid decisions, and it doesn't work because you want to be a good person or whatever. And it didn't work. What's that phrase? "No good deed goes unpunished." That's how it felt.

Shaan Puri

with a

Sam Parr

lot of with a lot of my hiring decisions

Shaan Puri

Yeah, you don't want to face the confrontation of it. You don't want to admit that you were wrong. You don't want to go back to square one and try to find somebody again. You don't want to admit to your team that you were wrong on this. There's a whole bunch of very understandable reasons why we make this mistake. Did I tell you how much trouble I... [sentence trails off]

Sam Parr

A lot of the "maybes" ended up being "maybes." A lot of the "maybe" people ended up being... like, it was... they were.

Shaan Puri

and they was just in the end yeah

Sam Parr

it always be an always stayed in alright sorry what were you saying

Shaan Puri

I got a lot of trouble at Twitch because when I was there, I tweeted out something that was very true for me, and I think it's true, but the COO and others didn't like it. I said something to the effect of: > "You always know in the first 2 weeks if someone's going to be great. Great people are great right off the bat; they show you greatness in the first 2 or 3 weeks." I've never seen, or you know, rarely ever will you see somebody who turns out to be great that just wasn't [great] in the first 2-3 weeks.

Sam Parr

and they yelled at you

Shaan Puri

Yeah, they were like, "That's not..." I mean, different people start at different paces, and no... you know, that's not... and basically, they were kind of... They took it as almost like that's too harsh. And somehow it was seen as like not diverse, like, "Oh, there's a group of people who are slower to acclimate."

Sam Parr

who yelled at you hr

Shaan Puri

Emmett, our COO, responded to the tweet and was like, "I do not... you know, stand by this. In fact, I've..." blah blah blah. Since then, I've seen a bunch of other people say the exact same thing. Bunch of other, you know, successful [people] say the same thing. So it kind of, in some ways, validated this... like, opinion on how...

Sam Parr

to do this

Shaan Puri

Firsthand experience I had was that the great people show greatness very early on. First 2 weeks, I tend to know if this person is going to be a winner. Now, that doesn't mean that somebody can't be a solid contributor that had a slow first couple weeks, but they're never the ones who are great. And great is all I'm really looking for, right? As Warren Buffett said, "Be a harsh grader." That is some of the best advice you can get.

Sam Parr

How do you spell "because"? That would be your reply to them. There's a fart noise. It's like when they reply to you, "You're not supposed to do that." It's like, come on!

Shaan Puri

I just said my. Exactly and then they were like what

Sam Parr

That's a ridiculous thing to think because the company was probably founded on that principle. I don't know Emmett, but I've seen his interviews. He seems like a particularly... pretty hardcore [individual] for sure. I imagine he was like that early on, and so that company was probably founded with that principle in mind.

Shaan Puri

We have this all the time. My team, so Ben, who's my business partner, and I will have some interaction with somebody. He'll be like, "Oh, so what do you think of how that's going with that person?" Like maybe it's a company we invested in. Then we talk to the CEO, and we're like, "I don't really know exactly why." They've been really slow to take action, or they were saying all kinds of weird stuff that didn't make any sense. Or we hire somebody junior, and then he's like, "How's it going with so-and-so so far?" And it's like, "Dude, if you have to ask, you know?" Right? That's the first principle. So you have to ask. And I'll say something pretty harsh. I'm like, "Well, I don't know. We talked about doing these three things, and then those three things haven't happened, and there's been no update on them in a week. So I don't know. How do you think it's going, Ben?" And he's like, "Yeah." He'll usually say something because Ben, one of the great things about him, is he has a generous interpretation of almost everybody. Like, his wife will yell at him, and he'd be like, "I mean, maybe I could have been a little more present," right? That's his first reaction.

Sam Parr

you know exactly how it's

Shaan Puri

Going... yeah, most people get to that, you know, but their first reaction is somewhat, "Well, that's unfair. That doesn't make any sense. You did this, blah blah blah blah," right? People get defensive, whatever. He doesn't really do that. He doesn't blame; he gives a generous interpretation of people, which is why I think everybody loves Ben. But at the same time, in a company, it's a really harsh way to run a company. Because sometimes when we're like, "Ben, do you think we should be making excuses for... do you think great people just have all these excuses and reasons why they're not being great right now? Or are they just great in spite of circumstances?" It's like, obviously, great people are great in spite of circumstances versus great people being bogged down in the ten maybe reasons why they're struggling right now. And so I'm definitely... but that attitude that has served me in the workplace doesn't serve me outside of the workplace. Because, you know, having a generous interpretation for people outside of work is a really awesome trait as a leader in a company. It tends to actually not work so well in the same way that democracy is great. Democracy inside a company, where everybody gets a vote on what we're doing, is not a great way to build a company. Companies are benevolent dictatorships when they win, and you have to be comfortable being a benevolent dictator there. But the benevolent dictator might not work in other areas of your life.

Sam Parr

Yeah, and that's why a lot of the most successful people are *fucking assholes*. It's because you have to be the...

Shaan Puri

4 times divorced or whatever right

Sam Parr

It's because what makes you great at one thing can make you **shitty** at another thing. Alright, I enjoyed that conversation. Is that the pod?

Shaan Puri

that's the pod

Sam Parr

that's the pod

Shaan Puri

sam how many diapers you changing per day right now personally what's your dpd yeah

Sam Parr

for the up until recently it

Shaan Puri

was here comes a lie by the way

Sam Parr

at least 1 a day

Shaan Puri

divide by 2

Sam Parr

now it's 1 every 3 days

Shaan Puri

Every three days? Wow, that is pretty incredible! Well, we have a nanny. How happy are you with the nanny?

Sam Parr

You know, a nanny tends to be a nanny for the whole family. So like, she does our laundry, she'll cook a little bit, she'll clean. I usually work at the kitchen table with headphones in, and so I'm always present. Like every 30 minutes, I take my headphones out and I go play. So the nanny... my goal was to make sure my child does not have a Jamaican accent.

Shaan Puri

You threw a curveball in at the end there. What? But your goal was for your kid to not have a Jamaican accent.

Sam Parr

like I didn't want someone else to do all of the raising of my child oh you know what I mean

Shaan Puri

oh you did a copywriting move there that was nice I like yeah

Sam Parr

so if my kids if naomi ever says jamon I'm gonna be like shit I need to be involved

Shaan Puri

yeah I've been I'm working too hard