Shaan Challenges Sam to Ignore His Limits, Michael Rubin is the Billy of the Week, and More

Sam Parr

People DM us a lot of interesting ideas. My reply to all of them is, "What do you think about this?" I always respond with two things. I say, "It's an amazing idea," and then I ask, "When are you launching?"

Shaan Puri

let's let's start the episode here

Sam Parr

Alright, what I've got are actually two interesting things to tell you. The first is that this company reached out. It's a famous publication that you know of, and I don't want to say it out loud yet. They want us to go to Baja, Mexico, to ride motorcycles and film a series on weekend adventures. Are you interested in that?

Shaan Puri

What for? Like, they... yeah, what's the catch? You want me to come out here and surf and ride motorcycles? What's in it for you?

Sam Parr

They just... I guess I could talk about it. I haven't asked if I could talk about it. It's just like, without giving too much away, they have a web series that goes on TV. It gets aired for both web and TV. They have a TV channel and this whole series where it's all about 9 to 5 workers—like normal yuppie jobs—and the adventures they have from Friday to Sunday. So, like, what all can you do on a weekend?

Shaan Puri

Okay, alright. That seems super up your alley and kind of up your alley too, but you know...

Sam Parr

that's that's their suggestion do you have a better idea on like a weekend adventure it's an adventure publication

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I don't do motorcycles. That's my only thing. I don't do motorcycles. After Kobe, I also don't do helicopters. But I love surfing. Surfing is a cool thing. I suck at it, but it's fun, so I would do that.

Sam Parr

Well, if you come up with a better idea, then pitch it. Okay? But they like, it's all paid for and everything.

Shaan Puri

Oh, okay, great! Yeah, let's do that. Why not? Look at your fitness influencer life; it's already coming in handy.

Sam Parr

So, what I wanted to talk about was that you're getting really fit too. I think it's pretty inspiring.

Shaan Puri

Coming from an influencer like you in the fitness world, that means a lot to me.

Sam Parr

Do you think your body has changed? I know it has. But has your brain changed, do you think? And your attitude, of course?

Shaan Puri

That changes first, right? Yeah, the attitude changes first. The brain changes first. The body changes, you know, slowly over time. But yeah, for sure. But I like, okay, if people... if I took off my shirt, you know, nobody's gonna be super impressed with me just yet. But I'm pretty impressed with me, and that's kind of my own opinion. I hold that in a higher regard than anyone else's. So yeah, I basically went from, like, kind of like... I don't know. I was... I would be like, "He's fat." If it was... I might have been fat. I didn't think of myself as a fat guy. But then I'd be in a photo and I'd be like, "What the hell? I look fat here." Then I'm like, "Every photo I look fat. Maybe I'm just fat." That's kind of what I reached the conclusion of at that time.

Sam Parr

You were getting overweight. I think that, you know, there's a definition of obese. It's a body fat percentage. And I guess if we use "obese" and "fat," yeah, I would say you're overweight. But I don't think you're overweight now.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so, I've been training hard for about a year now. I started off doing 2 to 3 days a week, and I just cranked it up to 5 days a week with a trainer. It was always supposed to be 5 days a week, but on the days I was supposed to train on my own, I was really half-assing it or not doing it at all. So, on average, I was doing about 3 or 4 days a week before, and now I'm doing 5 or 6 days a week, pretty intensely. I gotta say, I don't know why you're bringing it up or where you're going with this, but it's amazing! I could talk about it all day because it's the best thing I've done all year. So, if you're listening to this and considering any investment in your health, I guarantee that if you increase that investment, you will only thank yourself. That's kind of where I'm coming from here. I'm super happy with making this shift, and it's totally great.

Sam Parr

I have this friend who is incredibly wealthy. I would have to imagine he's around $30,000,000 wealthy. He said to me, "I want to get in shape. What routine are you using?" I replied, "That's a bad question. Who cares about the routine? If I were you, I would just hire a coach. It'll be like $400 a month." He responded, "Wow, that's expensive." I said, "Dude, you've got one body and one life. For me, my fear is when I see someone who's my age or 40, 50, 60, and their body hurts so they can't walk. They struggle to sit down on the floor or something like that. I'm like, that's hell, right? You're in this shitty home that's falling apart, and you can't get out. I asked him, "You just bought this fancy house. Why not also buy a fancy body?" Not to just look good naked, but to feel good. So, I was just thinking about it, and I think we talk about investing. I believe that's gotta be the best investment.

Shaan Puri

For sure, we have a mutual friend. I can't say the name on here because what they said is funny, but I'll share what they said. They're wealthy; they probably have around $100,000,000 in the bank. They’re always doing kind of fitness stuff. You wouldn't look at them and say, "Oh yeah, this person’s clearly ripped out of their mind," or that they're super jacked. That's not the case. But they live a very healthy lifestyle, and wherever they go in their day, their workout is a key part of it. They don't sacrifice it; they don't get too busy for it. So, I asked him about that. I said, "You know, man, it seems like you're really taking this seriously." He goes, "Yeah, you know, the way I look at it is if you're rich, you have no excuse to be fat." I asked, "What do you mean?" He said, "Look, if you don't have the money and you're just trying to support your family, you gotta work two jobs. You gotta shop at certain stores, you know, McDonald's. You gotta eat what you can afford sometimes. Okay, fine. Like, still, they're not great. I want you to not be in that situation, but I definitely understand. Because if you're rich and you're fat, that's on you, bro." And that’s how I feel now. When he said it, I was like, "You know, that's actually so true." If you had all the resources but you didn't make the investment that matters, that's sort of silly, right? That kind of planted a little seed in my head. I'll tell you something else that's been funny. My trainer recently... so you're absolutely right in what you said, which is it's not the workout routine. It's not what you do; it's not the workout program, right? It's not like somebody has some secret formula.

Sam Parr

For most people, it really doesn't matter. Even if you just walked 15,000 steps a day and you ate only maybe 2,300 calories, you're gonna look pretty good.

Shaan Puri

You're going to feel probably good if you're not working out five days a week. That's your problem. It has nothing to do with the routine. It doesn't matter what you did in the routine; just start with doing any workout and then make it better over time. When you're at "Sam status," then the actual routine does matter because, you know, you're already at the kind of 99th percentile. You're just trying to optimize at the end and get certain details to pop. So, yeah, then your routine matters. But for most people, it doesn't matter. I'll tell you something my trainer told me that was counterintuitive. He said, "We were talking about how my body has really changed. My arms have changed, my chest has changed, but my stomach still looks like the stomach of a guy who's not super in shape. I don't have a six-pack."

Sam Parr

that's not even the kitchen bro

Shaan Puri

and so so that's what I said I was telling him I was like oh yeah but that's all diet right and he goes he goes you know everybody says that he goes they say you can't out train your diet all all the stuff he goes and I get what they mean he goes but I'll tell you what intensity over diet all day and I go what he goes intensity over diet watch he goes don't even touch your diet right now don't worry about your diet don't be feel guilty when you eat something don't like count every calorie don't go weigh out your chicken breast like don't do any of that shit all I want you to do is commit to cranking up the intensity when we're here in this this part of the gym so he's like if you're like let's say 0 to 10 what's the intensity of your workout today like on average I say you know it's like a 8 he's like great all we're gonna do is we're gonna take that to a 9 we're just gonna make every workout at least a 9 on the intensity level and some days we're gonna be hitting 9a half and some days we're gonna even hit a 10 but right now I just want you to focus on a 9 and he goes watch what happens and he's been so right which is that it was really hard to just change my diet but it was that much easier to just crank up the intensity in working out and and it's not that the intensity will all of a sudden shred my fat it's that when I put the intensity in here diet becomes a much easier decision because I really like laid it all out during the workout part and so the desire to like throw it all away for you know this like pleasure these chips or this whatever like it's just not there and now I at first I thought he's full of shit I did not believe him but now that now that I'm actually trying it I just said hey let me let me follow what you say you're my coach I understand what you're saying and this is now applied to many other things in my life so now even in business we're I was talking to to ben about one of our business plans and it's like oh should we do this or this or this it was all about the plan the how the route you know what is the strategy and I basically said fuck the strategy let's just take our intensity up you say what I said whatever strategy we're doing let's just agree that like right now we're probably executing any of our strategies at a at a 7 or 8 let's just execute any of these bullshit strategies at a 9a half let's just see what happens and this is just working in all areas of my life now because now when you put a 9 9 or 9a half intensity you kind of like wanna figure out the right plan right it's like I'm gonna put in this intensity it better be on the right thing and your brain will solve the the which path should I choose problem in a different way because of intensity I don't know if that makes sense but it's a little

Sam Parr

No, it does mind. This weekend, I went to Formula 1 racing in Austin. It was like the hot thing to do. I went with this guy. Have you heard of what's it called? Jungle Scout? You know Jungle Scout?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, we've talked about it. It's the tool that basically, if you go on Amazon and you want to see what products are selling, how much, and how many of these Instant Pots get sold every week, Jungle Scout is this little extension you can click on. It'll tell you how much sales the products on Amazon have. It's kind of expensive, but it's a cool product.

Sam Parr

So, it's a big business. Like, you know, if you just Google it, you'd have to put the pieces together that they're not far from $100,000,000 in recurring revenue. Big business, yeah. It started as a Google Chrome plug-in, which is interesting. This guy, Greg, he's Neville's good buddy. My buddy's Neville, so that's how I got brought into this thing. I went with him, and he's very nice, very kind, easy to talk to, but incredibly intense. Here's just a tiny example of...

Shaan Puri

what

Sam Parr

When I see this, I'm like... I always notice this whenever I'm around certain people. I notice it when intense people do things like this. For example, the race had just ended. Some people—I don't know how they got onto it—but they got onto the track. I guess they just went on and took photos. One of them said, "Let's go," and he just starts walking over. I'm like, "Well, there's no gate." Imagine huge stands, and then you walk down the stands and there's a fence that's quite tall. He goes, "No, no, no, we're just gonna jump the fence." Everyone was staring at us. He just walks up without hesitation, puts his hands up there, climbs up on this fence, and just hops over. He says, "Come on, let's go." I, on the other hand, don't like confrontation that much. I don't like doing a lot of things that make people stare at me. I was like, "What you just did... you didn't even think twice." I've been with people who are really successful entrepreneurs. There'll be a line, and of course, this is like a jackass move. They'll say, "No, no, no, we're not waiting in line. We're just gonna walk in, and we're gonna do this." That's an example of that intensity. Have you ever noticed that? You probably have friends that do similar things.

Shaan Puri

Like, dude, you're an intense dude. I've noticed this about you. The line example is perfect. Remember when we were going to do our live show in Miami? The airport was just packed. I don't know why, but it was like 6 in the morning, and the airport was so crowded. We got there early, and we were still going to miss our flight. The security line was like 2 miles long. We waited and waited, and then you were like... some switch flipped inside you. It was just like, "Okay, we have all the reasons to miss this flight." Basically, it was like, "Alright, we got here early. Look, it's just a long line. There's nothing we can do. The airport is packed. COVID... it's all just circumstance." Then, I literally... you didn't even say anything. You were just like, "Okay, I'm gonna go." And then you just left the line. You gave up your spot, which was a risk because we waited for like an hour and a half. You gave up your spot.

Sam Parr

into the the pre

Shaan Puri

The TSA... you go to TSA PreCheck. You're not TSA PreCheck, you just hand the guy your ticket and he's like, "Bro, there's no PreCheck on this." And you're like, "Oh yeah, my wife PreChecked it, but it didn't print." Or you're like, "I'm PreChecked." He was looking at her and he's like, "There's no PreCheck." You're like, "I'm PreChecked, it just didn't print," right? And then he's like, "Your will just dominated his," and then you just got through the line. I'm just saying, and we were like, "Come on."

Sam Parr

on sean

Shaan Puri

And I'm still standing there, thinking, "Shit, if I go and say the exact same thing, that may work." So I was like, "I need to crank my intensity up." At that moment, I went and spent $200 buying Clear. Clear will escort you to the front of the line and take you through TSA. Then, you called me and said, "Dude, you gotta sprint!" because you were at the gate. You were like, "You gotta sprint!" I didn't even have my shoes on because of the security line, so I was holding my shoes. I didn't even have time to put them back on. I was in my socks and I sprinted to the gate like I've never sprinted before. I hate running, so I "hate-ran" my way all the way there. But it was your contagious intensity. Another example: we wanted to build our podcast studio. We had kind of been talking about it, and it got to that dangerous point where you have an idea, a thing you want to do, and then you've talked about it but you're not closing. You're just somewhere in the middle. This is where dreams go to die. I think most people would just sort of let it fade, and you just don't do it, or you kind of half-ass it. I remember it was like in a 24-hour...

Shaan Puri

You just blew up my phone! You were DMing me pictures of every other podcaster. You were like, "How about this, this, this? Just tell me of these three which one do you want?" I liked number 2. I said, "Yeah, sure, number 2." You were like, "Great, number 2! Okay, I found the chair on Amazon. Actually, let's drive to these three places and pick it up today. What time are you free? Are you free in 10 minutes? I'll be at your house." You came, picked me up, and we drove to IKEA. Then we drove to another furniture spot, and then we drove to this bootleg spot in Oakland. While we were at the bootleg spot, it was like not really happening. So, we went to another spot. Literally, the sales lady recognized your intensity. She came up to us in this big furniture store and said, "Hey, you guys look like you're ready to buy." I don't know what she said exactly, but it was something like, "You guys look like you know what you want." You were like, "Yes, I'm looking for this red chair because I have a show and I want it to pop in the thumbnail. It's gotta look like this." She ran into the back and tried to find us one. You got the whole thing done. Meanwhile, someone was painting the whole wall. You were like, "We need to paint the wall," so you hired some guy to go paint it over the weekend. By Monday, that was a Friday, the studio was done. I share this because that's a level of intensity that I know you have. I've observed it in all of my successful friends. They have this trait. Not all, I shouldn't say that; some people have a different style. But it's very common that people who are successful have this level of intensity when they do something—massive action. And it's contagious! It's contagious to the people around you. Like the lady in the store. There's this principle that's kind of like this. So, I'm reading this book—sorry to go on a tangent here—but I'm reading this book. Everybody's heard of it. You've heard of it: "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. Have you read that? Have you actually read the book?

Sam Parr

Years ago, but it's one of those books that you should reread every five years. I should probably reread it; it's pretty amazing.

Shaan Puri

I've had the book for like 10 years, and I never even opened it because I was kind of like, "Oh, I think I get the idea." So, I actually started reading it two nights ago. He tells a story of this guy who wanted to work with Thomas Edison. This guy had a clear idea: "I want to work with Thomas Edison." He noticed two things. First, he knew exactly what he wanted. It wasn't just, "I want a job in a lab." It was, "No, I want to work with Thomas Edison. This guy is an amazing inventor." The second thing was, "I don't want to work for him; I want to work with him as a business partner." The problem was, he had no qualifications, he wasn't even in the same city, and he had never met the guy. He had no access to him and didn't know anyone who knew him. But he didn't let any of those limitations stop him. Those limitations were sort of irrelevant to him. Sure enough, he buys a train ticket, goes to where Thomas Edison is, barges through the door, and says, "You know, Mr. Edison, I'm here to work with you. I think you're great, and I think we'll do great work together. I'm here to work with you." Edison was like, "What the heck? We're not even hiring." But he said something like, "Even though this man had no qualifications and I had never seen this person—he was a complete stranger—there was something about the intensity of his presence that told me this person has their mind set on something, and they're going to make it happen." That sort of reminded me of this common thing that I've seen in a lot of people, including myself, in various situations. Once you get to that level of absolute certainty and you carry yourself with that confidence, people will literally start to respond to you differently. They see this person as being on a mission. They think, "I either need to get out of the way, or I need to get behind them and help them do this." That has served me well. I have one crazy story about how it worked for me. But has that ever happened to you? Have you ever seen that in yourself or in others?

Sam Parr

Yeah, I call it being an animal. Paul Graham, he's the one who said that a lot of people talk about who you should hire in your early-stage startups. He goes, basically, the one word you want to use to describe them is: are they an animal? Do they just get shit done? I remember talking to my friend Jake, who went and worked at this company called Teespring, which grew very, very quickly. I asked him, "What's it like to work for Walker, the guy who runs it?" He goes, "He's an animal." For example, we wanted to do this partnership, and we had been working for weeks on getting in touch with these folks. He just googled their customer service number, and then right there in the meeting, he goes, "Guys, watch this." He just calls them and goes, "Hey, can I talk to this one person? Hey, this is Walker. I want to make this happen. What do we gotta do?" And that's a very easy example. Dude, I...

Shaan Puri

Have almost the same story. When I was in college, I had... I've talked a little bit about this before, but my very first business idea was to create the Chipotle for sushi. The same kind of fast-casual model, but for sushi. You've done it for sandwiches, for burritos, for Chinese food, but nobody had ever done it for sushi. So that was the idea. The problem was, I knew nothing about sushi. I knew nothing about the food industry. In fact, I had only tried sushi for the first time like a week before that. That's why I even had this idea. I was like, "Oh, sushi is amazing! How do I do more sushi in my life?" One day, I skipped class, and my buddy Trevor and I were sitting around at our apartment. I was like, "You know, Trevor loves to watch food shows like Chopped and Iron Chef. He just loves watching the food shows." I never understood it because, again, I'm not a foodie. I was like, "Why do you want to watch other people eat food? That seems crazy to me." But, you know, I got hooked because the shows are great, obviously. We were watching a throwdown with Bobby Flay, and there's this sushi chef that comes on. He obviously knows his stuff about sushi; otherwise, he wouldn't be on the Food Network. He says his qualifications were like, "You know, I'm in LA, I got my restaurant, but I also run the largest sushi academy for training chefs." So we were like, "Oh, this guy runs the largest chef training thing for sushi chefs." He had this swag to him. But we had interviewed three chefs locally, and they were all like... you know, think about a traditional Japanese sushi chef—kind of an outward personality, very conservative, traditional. They just looked at us like we were kind of besmirching the name of sushi. Like, "How dare you even suggest this fast sushi? No, no thank you." Then I saw this guy, and he had a big personality, which is why he was on TV. I said, "We need a guy like this." Trevor was like, "Yeah, where are we gonna find him?" I go, "He's right in front of us! We need this guy." He was quiet for a second, and Trevor just googles his number. He turns his laptop to me and goes, "Here's his number." And that's like, you know, challenge accepted. If your friend shows you that, it's like... or, you know, it's like, "Hey, that girl over there..."

Sam Parr

it's a dare

Shaan Puri

You gotta go now. Now you gotta approach that girl. So, I pick up the phone and I call. I don't know why I said this; I didn't have this planned, but it's exactly what you just said. The guy, Walker, said he picks... so somebody picks up the phone and I'm so used to getting the runaround that I didn't expect it to be him. So I go, "I need to talk to Philip Yee. How do I make that happen?" And then he goes... so I didn't say, "May I please speak to the..."

Sam Parr

which by the way that's the right way to ask which is how do I make this happen it just because there's always an answer

Shaan Puri

Came out, and it came out because I had already worked myself into a state of intensity. I was kind of nervous, so I was just in this heightened state, and that's just what came out. He goes, "Is Philip talking to me?" I hadn't planned what the heck I would say after that. I was like, "Oh, I said, Philip, you've never met me, but I'd like to start a business with you. I know that sounds crazy, but if you give me 10 minutes to hear me out, hear out my plans, I think you'll find it really interesting. It might be something that will extend what you're doing in LA. It seems like you have a great thing going, and I think this will really take that and blow it up." He goes, "What's the plan? How old am I at this time?" Yeah, I was a senior in college, so 21. Wow. He goes, "So what's the plan?" Now, I didn't have a plan, so I said, "You know what? It's going to be easier for me to email this to you. What's your email address?" I bought myself two days to create a plan and send it to him. Later on, a bunch of stuff happens. He flies out to meet us. We're going to school in North Carolina. He flies to our college dorm basically and meets us. We fly to his place, and I live on his couch in LA. He vets us; he basically puts us through the grinder to see if we are the type he wants to push for.

Sam Parr

which I I don't know how the story's gonna end but at that? To me that's a success

Shaan Puri

Already, it's a success! We turned this joke of an idea into something real. It might sound funny to you when I say I'm starting a shoe sushi restaurant, but you know, this Food Network chef is on board—or at least he's kind of on board. He's talking to me, and he's flying out here next week, so we have to prepare for that. I'm not going to class right now; I have to prepare for my chef. Months later, when we finally struck a deal with him, we closed the deal. He said, "Dude, you don't know how many people—because celebrities eat at my restaurant—you don't know how many rich celebrities come to me. They say, 'Oh, this restaurant's so small. You don't even have a liquor license. You need to expand. I'll put up the money; you need to expand.'" He goes on to say, "And I never did business with any of them. And here I am with three dipshits in college, and I decided to go into business with you. Everyone thinks I'm crazy." But you know why I go? He goes, "You remember what you first said to me?" I was like, "No." He said, "You called and you said, 'I need to talk to Phillipi. How do I make that happen?'" He said, "There was something in the way you said it that just told me this guy's gonna do something. This guy's gonna make something happen." He continued, "If you literally had not said that phrase, I don't think I would have even ever heard you out. Because this is just another one of these people who say, 'I wanna start a restaurant with you. I'd love to partner with you. Blah, blah, blah.'" I was like, "Wow, I didn't realize these things make that big of a difference." I don't think it's just the words; I think it's the intensity that will bring you to do the right thing and say the right thing at the right time.

Sam Parr

that's great I like that how how did it end

Shaan Puri

We partner with him. We go live on his couch and train in his restaurant in LA. So, you know, the first day I go there, he shows me the process for making sushi. I don't know if you've ever seen how a sushi chef rolls a roll of sushi.

Sam Parr

just like the yeah I guess so like they use that like piece of wood

Shaan Puri

A little bamboo... there's a bamboo roller, basically. But before you do any of that, right, the seaweed lays down and you've got to put the rice on it. Now, the rice is sticky rice. So if you've ever had Asian food, yeah, in the house, sticky rice. So how do you use your hands? How do you grab the sticky rice? There's a little problem. I didn't even realize there was a problem. Right? I'm sitting there watching him for an hour. First, he says, "Just shatter me. Sit here and watch me." I said, "Okay." I'm watching him, and he's just making sushi. I'm kind of getting it, but I don't even know what I'm looking for. Right? Like any amateur, when you look at something, you don't even know what you're looking for. You don't know what the details are that matter until you try something. And this is why he was a genius teacher. One hour in, he goes, "The next customer walked in. I'll tell you who it was in a second." He goes, "Alright, Sean, you're up," and he moves out of the way. I get to go stand in that spot wearing my stupid chef coat, and I don't know anything about anything. I've just been watching this guy. I thought it would be a long time because traditionally in sushi, if you've ever watched, like, "Jiro Dreams of Sushi"... Jiro.

Sam Parr

yeah it's like a 5 decades

Shaan Puri

Of destroying rice, you spend five years just mopping the floor. Then you get to touch the veggies, then you get to touch the fish, and the last thing you ever touch is the rice. Because actually, sushi means "vinegar of rice." Sushi is really about the rice, not about the fish. So, I didn't expect to be doing it. And so, one hour in, he throws me in the fire. Not only does he throw me in the fire, he throws me in the fire with this guy who sits down. I look up, and it's Daryl from *The Office*. If you ever watched *The Office*, it's Daryl, and Daryl's a regular there, so he kind of knew...

Sam Parr

wait wait wait daryl daryl from the office

Shaan Puri

is he's the warehouse guy he's the black warehouse guy

Sam Parr

oh black dude ben robinson I think his name is

Shaan Puri

I don't know if that's his name maybe that's his name it's something like that but

Sam Parr

daryl I know daryl of course

Shaan Puri

So, it's Daryl. I'm like, "Oh, fuck! I gotta make sushi." I make it for Daryl, and sushi... it's like the guy's staring at you. You're two feet away from each other, right? There's no hiding in the back of the kitchen to make it. I'm making it in this guy's face, and so he...

Sam Parr

daryl philbin sorry not bad

Shaan Puri

Daryl Philbin. Yeah, so at first, I just freeze. I'm standing there, looking down at the **fucking** bamboo. I have seaweed, bamboo, and rice, and I'm like, "Okay, how did he do this?" Then I'm freezing, and he walks away. I'm like, "Shit, okay, I gotta figure this out before he comes back." He comes back up to me, hands me a shot of sake, and he goes, "Drink the **fucking** shot and roll the **fucking** roll." So I take a shot, and then I'm like, "Okay." I grab the rice because I'm like, "I gotta spread the rice on the seaweed." I grab the rice, and immediately I know I've done something wrong because the rice is so **fucking** sticky in my hand that as I try to rub it onto the seaweed, it's like not gonna leave my hand. I just rip the seaweed, and my hand is like a rice glove. He's laughing, and he goes, "You know, every time before I roll the roll, I dip my hand in this water and I clap." He goes, "That clap is not for show. That clap is to wet your hand, then you clap, and that removes all the moisture. It kind of splashes the moisture off your hand, so you just have enough so that when you touch the rice..."

Sam Parr

it's not gonna stick to

Shaan Puri

Your hand... and so I was like, "Oh shit!" Then he kind of showed me how to do the first one or whatever. That was kind of like my first experience—feeding him. And like that same day, he's...

Sam Parr

badass

Shaan Puri

If you ever watched *Lost*, the guy Hugo from *Lost* came in and he ordered food or whatever. It's crazy. Anyway, so that's part of how that story ended.

Sam Parr

Have you heard of... I want to talk about intensity and "Billy of the Week" because I came across this guy who is incredibly fascinating. He is one of the most intense people I've ever read about. Have you ever heard of Michael Rubin?

Shaan Puri

michael rubin is that the fanatics guy

Sam Parr

yes so he's interesting because he's a young guy he's probably not yet 50 but if he is 50 he's early fifties and his name's michael rubin he's been a baller for years years and so this guy is incredibly fascinating but not a lot of people know who he is I think he's worth like $10,000,000,000 like you know he's worth a a ton of money you know like jack dorsey money and yet he's like pretty under talked about and so this guy listen to his story so I was reading reading about him so basically he's in the news now but I'm gonna explain his background so at the age of 12 he started a ski tuning shop in his in his parents' basement and then 2 years later at 14 he got $25100 in bar mitzvah gifts and he leased a an office or a shop near his parents' house and by age 16 he was already in a $120,000 in debt and had to settle with creditors and his dad had to pay him give him pay him out for $37,000 and he was basically said like I'll bail you out but you have to go to college and you gotta stop this nonsense so he goes to college but then after a couple of semester he drops out and he already has 5 new ski shops and it kinda kicks ass and he eventually sells it and then at the age of 21 he starts his business called kpr sports it's an equip an equipment closeout company by age 21 it has a $1,000,000 in sales 2 years later age 23 $50,000,000 in sales at the age of 20 at 23 1995 he purchased it purchased 40% of the women's shoe company ryka have you heard of ryka no it was around in like the the nineties and early 2000 and then eventually he started this company called gsi commerce he kind of pivoted into this thing where it was called gsa gsi commerce and they would buy brands and they would kinda be the logistics and back end that make these brands amazing and he sold that at age like 28 for $2,400,000,000 netting him a $150,000,000 personally then a few years later he bought the business back and he formed 3 different companies the first was shoprunner have you heard of shoprunner no shoprunner basically was kinda like amazon prime but for all non amazon stores so you could spend a $100 and get free shipping on loads of different stores he started rue la la which you probably wouldn't have heard of but I bet your wife has and then he has and then he started fanatics he sold shoprunner recently for $228,000,000 fanatics ends up becoming this massive business and so basically if you buy like a rams jersey it's made by fanatics and they basically work with the nfl

Shaan Puri

they get they're like the official merchandiser basically of like all major sports

Sam Parr

But here's where things get really, really wild. So, Fanatics turns it now into, I believe, three different large businesses. There's the main Fanatics business, which basically has licenses with the NFL, NBA, and MLB. They make shirts and normal merchandise. I believe if it's not publicly traded, it's nearly publicly traded and worth $18 billion. The second thing that he did was spin out this trading card division. Have you seen that? They're just...

Shaan Puri

in the news because this what is what is it called

Sam Parr

He raised... it's called Fanatics Trading Cards. So basically, he raised $350,000,000 at a $10,400,000,000 valuation. There are companies like Topps; everyone knows Topps. They make cards, and I think they also make a bunch of other stuff like gum and random things. But Topps, plus the other three big players in the space... I forget what they are, but if you're listening in to baseball cards, you're...

Shaan Puri

totally huge

Sam Parr

So collectively, those make like **$2,000,000,000** a year in EBITDA. It's a fairly big business since you're like a **$10,000,000,000** trading card company, right? It is pretty frothy, but it could, if it... you know, can it be a **$1,000,000,000** a year in profit business? Totally. He raised money for that, and then he has a second thing called **Candy Digital**, which is making NFTs for sports. They just raised **$100,000,000** at a **$1,500,000,000** valuation. He spun all of these off, and now he's also the owner of the **76ers** and the **New Jersey Devils**, the sports teams. Pretty freaking wild! If you follow him on Instagram, which I just started doing, he's homies with **Meek Mill**. He helped get him out of prison, and he spends a lot of his time... Michael Rubin spends a lot of his time with prison reform. Incredibly prolific, very, very, very confident, very fast-moving, very intense. An incredibly interesting guy. Seems like a good guy, and now I'm looking forward for him to come on.

Shaan Puri

The pod... this guy, this guy's cool. I've seen a lot of his interviews, and I like him a lot. I think what he did with Fanatics is impressive. I always view doing things in sports as really challenging. If you want to succeed in sports and music, it's actually so hard to win. It's like, "Oh yeah, I'm passionate about sports." Great! You and 2,120,000,000 other people feel the same way. So, it's really difficult to pursue what I'll call obvious ideas in sports, like selling merchandise, selling jerseys, or selling shirts. For him to build such a large business in what would be such a competitive space is really impressive to me.

Sam Parr

It's very impressive. When I was watching interviews with him, Gary Vee is a partner on a couple of his projects. I don't know if he's an investor or if he gets a small stake; I don't know how the arrangement works. However, he's mentioned in a lot of the articles as either a co-founder or a founding team member. Basically, I've hung out with Gary maybe only three or four times, including the time we had him on the podcast. I've spent time with him in person, and he has the same energy that I've noticed Michael Rubin has. There's this thing that I have, and I think every human being, even these guys, just don't have a lot of it. It's like a self-limiting belief, where it's like, "Well, you know, I can't do this because of this, this, and this." I've noticed with Gary, he once told me, "I want to create all these restaurants, and they're actually going to be completely free. The way they're going to make money is Amex or whoever's going to sponsor it." He was just brainstorming, saying, "But I'm going to do that." In my head, I thought, "Well, that's really dumb. A free restaurant? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of." But I feel like nine out of ten things he does, I would say, "That's a really dumb idea," and they work. You know, he said he's going to come out with this NFT thing, "VeeFriends." If he told me about it, I would say, "Gary, this is really dumb. This is not going to work." Yet, it's been incredibly lucrative and very successful. They don't have this limiting belief where it's like, "This won't work for this reason or that reason." It's just like, "Well, why not? Logically, it makes sense. I think this can work." Anyway, this is...

Shaan Puri

this is very timely so let me tell you why by the way I've noticed a lot of these coincidences happening in my life where I'm thinking about something or I'm doing something and then somebody who's like like minded they're almost experiencing the same thing and just in a different way we trade these stories so same exact thing alright so I told you I'm reading think and grow rich there's a section in there that I remember you know it's just like stuck in my head and he goes he goes to be successful one needs to be success conscious and I was like I don't even know what that means I don't think most people would know what that means but the interesting part is the second line it's what he says after that he goes he goes and people who fail all fail for the same reason they take their current limitations as real limitations right they're they take the perceived limitations that are that they're that they're feeling now and they treat them as real and what you're saying is exactly that which is that everybody oh I need to do this but I don't have the time but I don't have the money but I don't have the experience but this person said they would get back to me and they haven't got back to me yet but this but you know the port is closed right now and so the shipment's gonna be delayed it's like there's always these limitations that feel very real in the moment and then what's what successful people do really really well is they sort of just ignore all those limitations they ignore all the limitations about themselves and even the thing when somebody says no to them they're like okay cool but like what does your boss think about that how about I talk to them let me see what they have to say how about I go to your competitor let me see what they have to say how about I ask you again but then someone will ask more playfully and later on at night out over a glass of wine now you're gonna have a different answer it's like they don't take no for an answer on any front you know on their own limitations from they don't take no from themselves and they also don't take no from the world and so I noticed that so I yesterday we were finishing up our workout and and we have a kind of like you know like is we train the body but we train the mind at the same at the same time and so we're talking about this I said man I've read this great thing and I know I could share it with him because he's he's the type too that like to eat this stuff up and he goes oh that's great and I go but you know what I don't wanna just sit here and say that's great because what what really means when I say this and we're like yeah yeah yeah that that's true is we kind of do this thing where we're like yeah that's true other people fucked that up but you know not me

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

There's like this inherent feeling that, yeah, other people really need to get this, but they don't get it. I get it. So I said, "No, no, screw that." Just like we just did reps in the gym on our shoulders and lats and whatever else, I said, "Let's get a rep right here." I asked, "What's something that you want, but you have some random limitation? It's not even like you haven't been able to overcome it; honestly, you're just not even aware of it. You're not even saying it out loud. Once you say it out loud, you probably find a solution to it, but you don't really do it." I said, "I'll go first. Ever since I worked out at Sam's gym, I want my garage gym to feel like that. I already had the weights and was doing the workout, but it doesn't feel the same. His gym feels amazing to be in. He's got the floor finished properly, he's got the fan on the wall, he's got the music system. It just feels great. I want my gym to feel like that." Then I thought, "What's my limitation?" I hired this one contractor who's been really slow getting back to me with a quote. It's like, well, I could think of ten ways to solve that problem right now, but I just hadn't put my awareness on what was a random limitation standing in the way of me and something I wanted. I told my trainer, "You gotta do one now. What's something you want that you have a limitation on? Let's get a rep." This is a very powerful way of thinking. When you get advice, don't just be like, "Yeah, advice. Let me write that quote down. Let me tweet that quote out." It's like, "No, no, no. Apply it in the moment. Get a rep doing the thing." So, let me ask you, let's do it live. What's a thing you want in your life? And then what's the thing you want that isn't being fully realized right now? It could be anything—something in your relationship, work-wise, money-wise, fitness-wise, whatever. Something small, something in your house. What's the thing you want? Then try to shine that light on what's the limiting factor—what's something you've just let limit you for no reason that Gary V. wouldn't or that Michael Rubin wouldn't?

Sam Parr

okay this sounds silly

Shaan Puri

it should sound silly it's perfect because it's usually the silly things

Sam Parr

I've had a fear of camping for a long time. I want to spend more time in the wilderness because I like the idea of it. However, I'm kind of afraid of being out at nighttime in the woods, either by myself or with a small group.

Shaan Puri

Okay, great. So, you want to camp, and then you're afraid. If you shine the light, what's the limit? What's the thought that goes into your head? Is it "I don't have X" or "I'm afraid of Y"? What is it?

Sam Parr

I've just not... I've not bought any camping equipment. I haven't looked at where to go. I haven't told a buddy or two that I want to go do it. I just haven't planned anything.

Shaan Puri

make it more personal why haven't you planned anything

Sam Parr

what's all the best fear

Shaan Puri

fear of what

Sam Parr

fear of being out at night in the wilderness by myself

Shaan Puri

And that's the perfect stopping point. Because whenever you say the fear out loud, it sounds really **stupid**. It's like, "I'm afraid of being outside at night by myself." Like, first...

Sam Parr

of all I'm not gonna be with somebody I'm not gonna

Shaan Puri

I'm going to be by myself. I'm going to be with somebody because it's more fun with friends. Secondly, whatever... it's not that scary. I could do it, right? So, like, that's the best part of when you finally find the thing and you say it out loud. It just sort of dissolves because it's like, "Well, that sounds silly." It doesn't have as much power once I say it out loud. Once I shine the light on it, it's like it scurries away.

Sam Parr

well you gotta get your gym set up then it's not that hard I sent you the link

Shaan Puri

I know, yeah. I have everything. The limiting factor was that I don't know how to do home improvement projects. I'm not handy.

Sam Parr

dude do you know how to cut like a slice of bread that's all you have to do when you lay down the floor you just gotta go with

Shaan Puri

even easier than

Sam Parr

that I was like

Shaan Puri

I could pay this guy to do it. Okay, that'll solve my problem. Oh, the guy's not responding. Okay, and I just let it fizzle there. It's like, what? No, I want this! Why would I just let this wait? We all agreed that one common denominator in most of the things you want is that you've come up with an excuse to wait. I'll give you another example. I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but I had this guy who was kind of like an apprentice for me for a few months. I basically said, "Hey, he was like, 'I want to learn about content and stuff like that.'" I said, "Cool, you come help me research and write stuff, and I'll teach you some things." After a few months, he went on his way and was like, "Cool, go out there in the world." Since then, I think I could say his name. So, is this guy, is this guy Chris? I don't even know how to say his last name—Chris Hasluc? I don't know, it's a crazy last name.

Sam Parr

red head guy works at goldman

Shaan Puri

Redheadguy, exactly. He was a college student at the time. When I was talking to him, he was a student at Yale, and it's after...

Sam Parr

nice guy I've talked to him

Shaan Puri

super nice guy after I did the apprenticeship he grew his twitter following from I think like 2,000 followers he just hit a 100,000 followers yesterday or 2 days ago and he text me he's like dude I hit a 100,000 like thank you you know I I learned a bunch of stuff you showed me kinda like what good writing looks like and I was like dude that's honestly it's fucking amazing like you're a college kid and you did that like that's that's super impressive and he's like you know but I'm thinking about like where do I go from here I said well it's real simple like what do you want like I'm not I'm not gonna tell you what to do next like what do you want to do next and then go do that thing it's really that simple and he's like oh you know I wanna start a company and I said okay cool so did you take that banking job that I was telling you not to take he's like yeah and you know I've been here for a little bit I I don't think that might but that might not be the long thing long term thing for me I think I wanna start a company someday I said oh you're waiting he's yeah yeah I've just you know like I said okay why don't you just quit your job and go do that he's like well you know and he gave me another reason for waiting I said okay so why don't you just go do it and he goes well I you know if I did do it I'd wanna do it with my friend he's really really smart super smart guy but he has to wait a year because he's graduating he's not graduated yet so you know I thought I'd just wait you know a year I said wait a year 10% of your twenties you're just gonna give away wow most precious asset just pissing it away just waiting wait wow and I was just like and he's like yeah you know and then also you know I wanna I'm making good money right now I wanna save up so I have enough runway you know money money is always like you know it it it does matter at the end of the day I said how about this how about instead of telling me a bunch of reasons why you're not gonna do the thing you wanna do you just start telling me some reasons you are gonna do the thing you're gonna you wanna do try that it works much better trust me and I was like kind of a dick about it but it's really that fucking simple and I noticed and it's not just him I know this because I do this I'm guilty of waiting for bullshit or coming up with reasons to wait and so whoever's listening to this and needs to hear this don't wait my trainer says wait is a wait wait is a wait on your back and stop waiting

Sam Parr

So, I had a friend who... and we can move on after this, but I think people will like this. I had a friend who, on April 5th, said, "I’ve saved enough money to move forward with the prototyping process. I feel like I found the right engineer to partner with. It's a decent amount of money, but I think I could do it." I want to know what your thoughts are on how to launch this. I texted him back, "If I were you, I would do this, this, and this." This morning, I texted him—this was April 5th—and I asked, "How'd the idea turn out?" He said, "Too expensive for me to commit my life savings. The cost in manufacturing and marketing of a physical product were way bigger compared to starting a software or internet company." Oh wow, so you started a software company? *LOL* No.

Shaan Puri

I love it

Sam Parr

I was about to say I'm figuring out what to do and when I'm going to stop being a worker bee. Then I'll probably... I can't say I'll probably quit after blank IPOs, right? I don't even know what city I'll be in next year, and it's never going to happen.

Shaan Puri

it's never gonna happen

Sam Parr

it will never happen

Shaan Puri

oh no

Sam Parr

it will never happen

Shaan Puri

Let's imagine lovingly for this guy. It is going to happen; it's going to happen once he stops thinking that way. Once he stops being that way, once he changes, that'll change. Or a she, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but basically, it's a person. Yeah, there's a funny thing with that. You know, I always wonder: do you be a dick or do you kind of empathize?

Sam Parr

If you care, you can be a dick. And why is that? If you care, well, like, look, it's like, do you want this or not? Oftentimes, I say to people, "Do you really want this?" I don't know if you actually want this. I think that you just think it's cool to want this, and I don't think it's cool to want.

Shaan Puri

this you want to talk about it

Sam Parr

do or you don't right

Shaan Puri

you wanna talk about it like if

Sam Parr

you just wanna talk about it just tell me you just wanna brainstorm

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

Or you just want to shoot the shit, right? But if you're telling me that you want this, then I'll hold you accountable. Actually, I'll say, "Why haven't you done this?" Right? My trainer says, I think...

Shaan Puri

He goes, "You know, I treat people the way they told me they want to be." So, you want to be fit, right? If you're going to complain about doing these sets, well, the guy who's fit does this. I'm going to treat you from the place you told me you want to be. At any given time, you could come and say, "I don't want it anymore. I changed my mind. I want this instead." Cool, I'm happy to change my treatment. I'm happy to treat you differently when you tell me that you've changed your mind, that you don't want this anymore, that you want something else. You are totally in your right to do that. But let's be clear: I'm always going to ask you, "Did you change what you wanted?" Because if you still want that thing, then I'm going to keep treating you like the person who gets that thing. And that person doesn't do or say these things. So, I'm not going to entertain it. I'm not going to be the shoulder to cry on. I'm not going to be the one who sympathizes and pats you on the head and says, "I understand why it's tough for you, why it's so hard." Because it's not so hard for that guy. So, be that guy.

Sam Parr

People DM us a lot of interesting ideas. My reply to all of them is, "What do you think about this?" I always respond with two things: 1. I think that's an amazing idea. 2. When are you launching? It's always amazing! You're just asking for permission, so I'm going to give you permission. It's amazing! There's no reason why this can't work. Oftentimes, there are a lot of reasons, but it doesn't matter. When are you launching?

Shaan Puri

I do a similar one. Mine says, "Sounds cool, right?" They say, "But I have this idea. What do you think? I would love to hear your feedback, your thoughts. Happy to jump on a call." I don't even reply to any of that. I just say, "Sounds cool. Let me know when you launch it so I can check it out." Yeah, I always say the same thing.

Sam Parr

And sometimes, I’ll reply months later. I save certain conversations and then reply. Do you want to talk about one more interesting thing on the list?

Shaan Puri

one thing from this de beers thing that I just yeah

Sam Parr

I've been dying to hear it

Shaan Puri

Okay, so let me tell you this story. This kind of blew my mind. I gotta open up my notes for this because I did proper research for this.

Sam Parr

so why don't you put your notes in this document so I can see them

Ben Wilson

oh it's

Shaan Puri

Just really long. It's like two pages of notes, so I didn't want to blow it up for this. But let me just tell you this story. I got your full and undivided attention. You can't even read the thing; you gotta listen to me say it. Alright, so somebody in my family was thinking about getting engaged soon. So the whole engagement ring process was going on, and they were asking all the questions you have because most people don't usually buy a ton of diamond rings or something like that. They were kind of like, "What's the budget? I see there's these four C's: cut, clarity... which one should I care more about?" So then they did this thing: they went to a jewelry shop and tried some on. I said, "Just go try some on, see what you like." You're not going to buy it from there, but go to a nice shop to try things on so you can see what shape you like, what color you like, and what different prices will get you, that sort of thing. They went, and they came back and said, "Hey, have you ever heard about this lab-grown diamond thing? Had you heard of this?"

Sam Parr

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah basically there I mean that's all it is it's diamonds grown in the lab right

Shaan Puri

I mean it's just that like now you have you know for for many different types of products for meat they're trying lab grown meat so what if instead of farming animals and killing them and you know contributing to a lot of you know global warming you could just take a stem cell from a cow's shoulder and grow a filet mignon right that's the promise and there's a company called memphis meats that's doing it and it tastes it looks identical to the meat to a steak it tastes identical because it is identical cellularly molecularly it is identical to a normal steak now the problem right now for meat is that it costs like $10,000 a pound or something crazy so you know it's not economically feasible yet and and then there's this company I was looking at potentially investing in it's called vitro labs and they're doing this with leather they're saying hey instead of killing animals for for leather what if we could have a cruelty free leather let's just grow the skin in a lab and they're signing deals with you know that's pretty cool big name luxury brands you know the the sort of who's who luxury brands that they wanna offer a a vegan product but they don't wanna sacrifice the quality of the material so they said hey let's get you an identical material molecularly matching material for that okay so I've been interested in this lab grown trend and diamonds was the latest one so I said oh interesting diamond it's not the new it's not new it's actually much more commercially forward it's like out there and people buy this stuff it's growing in popularity compared to meats and leather which are kinda like still in development so so I started looking into it and I was like I was like is this kinda like bullshit or what's going on and here's what I found the diamond industry itself is mostly bullshit and a lot of people know this but I dug into some of the history and here's what here's what I found that kind of interest me so before 18/70 like diamonds weren't even like a they they were not even a a a a a considered rare so our yeah punniphal sorry before 18/70 they were rare because we didn't know where to find them so like you know the maharaja in india would would have it in his crown or you know some egyptian person would have it in their in their garment but it was it was so rare that you didn't even see it around it wasn't even a thing there wasn't even businesses around it but then in 18/70 they find this huge deposit in I think south africa and so now diamonds become this like they realize oh diamonds are actually not in short supply there's tons of diamonds they found this huge thing and so all these miners go in like a gold rush basically and they start my they start establishing diamond mines in south africa and then like 6 months later a year later they all realize like shit there's now too much supply we're flooding the market with this stuff and it's we're all going out of business nobody can afford nobody can afford to to run the mine because we're we're flooding so much supply so the miners but no so the miners like damn it if everybody else just stopped I could make a bunch of money but it's like the prisoner's dilemma nobody wants to be the one that stops so they all keep going and they all put each other out of business and so there's this guy cecil rhodes who comes around and cecil rhodes starts buying up the mines he's like I need to aggregate all this supply in south africa so he starts aggregating it all he basically buys mines from one of the farms is called something something the the brothers were called de beers that was their last name so he becomes the de beers like mining and exploration group or something like that some name like that so that's where de beers the diamond company comes from and so de beers became this over the next 100 years de beers becomes this monopoly they control 90% of the supply and the reason diamonds are considered rare is because de beers owns all the supply and they just limit how much they produce from the mines they could produce 10 times more but instead they intentionally restrict supply at the mining level then they this is so monopolistic as crazy so then they created this group of 200 pea only 200 people were allowed to buy from them called site holders and they said oh you were invited so so we control all the supply so we decide who we sell to and we only are gonna sell these 200 and then you can go sell to merchants now we're gonna so they could kinda hold these 200 people accountable and say hey why is this person over here selling at this low price cut them off and like they just cut you off and if a new mind popped up they would go like the mafia and they'll go and just sort of like through violence intimidation or like even just like market tactics they would basically like put the mind out of business and take it over so like let's say you discovered a mind that had a bunch of yellow diamonds they would flood the market with yellow diamond supply crush your economics you'd go out of business and then they'd take over your mind wow and so they they would just find whatever you produce and they would just flood you and so so all the way up until about the year 2000 they owned 90% of this thing but I was like I was like why is this so if it's not rare where does the value come from and so the story is basically diamond mining wasn't big business right away it was like an okay business it was good business and then it started to like kind of like plateau and it wasn't really growing that fast in 1936 they say we gotta do something we got all this diamond production but where there's not enough demand now for the diamond production so they go down madison avenue and they find this ad agency and they find this one guy so everybody who loves diamonds today and every girl is demanding a diamond engagement ring it's because of this guy george locke back in the day and they hire this guy and they say look we need you to create demand for diamonds and at that time before 1936 people were not even giving diamonds as an engagement ring it wasn't even like rings weren't even an engagement process it was like very rare that people would do that most people just kind of of did an engagement as sort of a different sort of agreement and so he does a big study and he says okay look what we need to do is this we need to get men to buy the diamonds for women and we need the women to believe that diamonds are the way that your man could show you so for women it's like if you want the man to say he loves you we need diamond to represent love diamond equals love that's like one side of the board they said on the other side men the bigger the better the more expensive the diamond the more of a man you are so it became

Sam Parr

Diamonds... they came out worth something, and it was like some ridiculously obvious statement that they came out with, right?

Shaan Puri

so they they had a bunch so they've done like diamonds are forever is was named I think one of the most I think it was named the marketing slogan of the century or something like that you know of the last 100 years it was voted that diamonds are forever was the best marketing hook created because it created this like demand for diamonds so why is that so so so look there's a bunch of like aspects to this so first how did they build demand well it was basically in old school influencer marketing so they decided alright we're gonna make diamonds look like the gift of love and so they went to hollywood and they went to all the producers and they said we will give you producers here's a beautiful diamond for you to give your wife here's a diamond for you for you for you on your your bracelet or your necklace your earrings or whatever and they basically said hey we will give you these diamonds for free producer but you need to have a scene in your movie the climax of your movie where the man professes his love for the woman he needs to open up a box with a diamond ring inside and then she needs to have an amazing reaction like she needs to be won over because the guy did that and so they went to all these movie producers and the movies now all have these scenes that you could go back and watch this montage of before this nobody was doing this in movies all of a sudden every movie this was the key scene the guy pronounces his love for his wife for the woman gives her a diamond and she says oh my god I love you too and kisses him back and so they like use that kind of inception then they went to fashion designers and said hey would it be a shame if if if if you didn't say that the trend next year the big trend is that diamonds are in with the let's call it the trend to diamonds so they created this thing called the trend to diamonds and they just got all these fashion designers to ambiguously say there's a trend to diamonds so now you have the the the high art people saying this and then you have hollywood showing it and that was like the main sort of brainwashing mechanism of of the world at that time no social media no nothing and so then they so then you know the ad agency starts getting you know clever they're like alright how do we make the diamond proportionate to the man's success what if it was you have to spend 1 month's salary on this and they went with 1 month's salary and then they upped it to 2 months' salary and then they had an advertising campaign that said how do you make 2 months of salary last forever buy a diamond

Sam Parr

oh man

Shaan Puri

Amazing, right? And then they were like, "Okay, look, but hey, we all know that diamonds are actually not that rare." So, they said, "Oh, first of all, if you make it the ultimate gift of love, the woman won't want to sell it, and the guy won't want to sell it." And then, even if they do, here's what we'll do: dealers, the merchants who sell this, you cannot take diamonds back. Because diamonds, even though they are seen in the world as a store of value, it's like, "Oh, well, just jewelry." It's like, you know, jewelry is kind of like a safe way to store your wealth. It's like a card. If you take a diamond out of the shop, it's lost 50% of its resale value, and the dealer doesn't want you to know that. So, they won't even make you an offer to buy it back. They've banned merchants from making offers to buy it back because they didn't want the merchant to tell the customer, "Hey, once you buy this thing, it's worth half." So, they said, "Don't even make an offer." And so, they kind of killed the resale market. Then, they created this "Diamonds Are Forever" campaign so that you would not want to sell your diamond. They did this country by country. You can look in any country and see this chart. In the U.S., it goes through this curve where no one's buying diamonds to like 75% of engagements being through diamonds. Then, it gets to like 90% of engagements being done through diamonds. In Japan, they were like, "Oh, we have no market share in Japan." They did the same marketing playbook there, and it goes from 5% of brides having a ring to 60% in 20 years.

Shaan Puri

And De Beers owns 70% of that market share, right? Then they started creating other marketing gimmicks, like the right-hand ring. It's like, if you're an independent woman and you don't want this ring on your left hand that shows you're kind of owned by this man, wear a right-hand ring. You need a diamond on your right hand—that's the right-hand ring. Then there's the 25th anniversary ring, the upgrade ring, you know, just to show that you're doing better than you were before. They created all this... they literally created the demand and restricted the supply. It's kind of unbelievable. So that's kind of like the...

Sam Parr

that's amazing

Shaan Puri

The core of it, there's some other stuff. Like, you know, there's the blood diamonds issue, which is the bad PR around it. These diamond mines were, a) in kind of shitty conditions, and b) they were basically using profits from the mine to fund war in the area—militia war in the area. So, that was kind of like, you're basically funding conflict in a way. After the movie "Blood Diamond" came out, the diamond industry tried to clean up their image. But then lab-grown diamonds started coming out. When lab-grown diamonds emerged, it was like, "Oh shit!" So first, they created a marketing campaign that said, "Real is rare." They basically claimed that if it's real, that's what makes it rare, which is what makes it valuable. So, if it's a lab-grown thing, that's nothing. They refused to acknowledge it, refused to sell it, and refused to care about it. But customers were like, "Dude, this is indistinguishable from a diamond!" The naked eye cannot tell what's a real diamond—mined from the earth or made in a lab—because materially, again, the composition is the same. It's not like a fake diamond; it's the same material. It was just grown in a lab rather than in the earth. And so you...

Sam Parr

choose get the the shane co commercials

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

And they say, "You don't want to get them from a lab." It's just like every other one.

Shaan Puri

right you throw

Sam Parr

all the same

Shaan Puri

Exactly, exactly. It's not special. The problem is, it's still growing in popularity because they sell for about 30% of the price. You could get a way bigger ring that looks identical to a diamond ring that is made of a diamond, but it just happened to have been... it's like, do I want my coffee sourced from Canada, the Philippines, or Africa? It's kind of like, where is it sourced? Some people care, but it's growing in popularity. So then De Beers and the diamond industry did the last kind of "stone cold killer" move. For years, they were like, "Lab-grown is fake, it's bullshit, don't buy it." But it was just growing in popularity anyway. So they were like, "Alright, shit, we gotta do something else."

Sam Parr

then they create

Shaan Puri

This brand called Lightbox started producing lab-grown diamonds. Everyone was like, "Oh my God, does this mean that lab is legit?" And they were like, "No, no, no, no, no. Lab is for people who can't afford diamonds, so we're going to sell ours." So they undercut the price like crazy. Normally, a lab-grown diamond will cost about 30 to 40% of the cost of a natural diamond, so it's like a 50 to 60% discount. But they started pricing theirs at like a 90% discount compared to a real diamond, just to ruin the market value and the brand perception of lab-grown diamonds. They came out with a statement saying this is for "emotionally shallow events" like a sweet 16 or a quinceañera party. They suggested buying the lab-grown diamonds for those occasions. This is their latest tactic to try to maintain this big myth, this big lie that diamonds are these rare, valuable, precious gems. It's like, actually, it's complete bullshit.

Sam Parr

This is amazing research! This is a good one; this is a very good story. But here's the thing: where we are, maybe it will change. In our thirties, we all do the same thing. Right before we get engaged, we say, "This is bullshit! I will not stand for this. I will not pay this amount of money." Right? My budget? I'm going to set it really low. I'm going to get a fake one or I'm going to get a lab-grown one. I will not buy into this. And then you get into it and you say...

Ben Wilson

fuck it

Sam Parr

it's gonna make her happy

Shaan Puri

she's gonna make her happy

Sam Parr

yeah and we all refuse to buy into it

Shaan Puri

And, well, more and more people are starting to go the other way. But, yeah, it's amazing that this is still the majority, right? Given that lab-grown diamonds are visibly identical and you can get a way better-looking diamond for a cheaper price, it's amazing that the utility doesn't overwhelm. But, like, the branding is that embedded; it's that strong after so long. Actually, there's one other part: eventually, you know, De Beers did lose their monopoly. I should say, in the year 2000, they basically broke up the monopoly because they were getting a lot of public pressure. As a monopoly, the buyers were kind of sick of being constantly threatened by De Beers. Then, people found new mines in Australia and all these other places where they couldn't, like, you can kind of just in Africa, you can coerce people, but in Australia, it's a lot harder to coerce a miner in public to just give you their mine. So, they've changed their business strategy. And the last factor, by the way, is there's this guy—the family that kind of created the real monopoly is the Oppenheimer family. They've run this thing for years. This is the first guy Oppenheimer. He's the one... how rich?

Ben Wilson

are they

Shaan Puri

They're very wealthy. The business, I think, is like a $10,000,000,000 business. I believe they sold half the stake for $4 or $5 billion recently. I also think they own like 50% of Louis Vuitton or something like that. They own some other stuff too. But anyway, they couldn't find anyone in the family to take it over anymore. No one wants to run the business. None of the younger generation wants it; there's nobody to inherit it. So they're like, "Shit, there's no heir." The business is still good, but it's getting harder, and we don't have someone to fight for it. So they actually switched strategies. They broke up the monopoly and shifted from like 90% market share to 30%. Then they started rolling out their own retail stores, and profits have gone up. But their control and power have gone down significantly.

Sam Parr

And I would have to, if I had to bet... You know, I'm a very amateur historian, and so I've read a lot of these stories. If I had to bet, I would argue that once you break up a monopoly for a family-owned business, the odds are that the family is now actually going to get richer. It seems like...

Shaan Puri

because what what do you mean

Sam Parr

Well, so for example, Standard Oil. This is the same thing. In the 1920s, Teddy Roosevelt said, "Nope, Standard Oil, you are the De Beers of America. You own 80% of oil production; you can't do it anymore." So they broke it up into 5 or 8 different companies. Some of those companies are ExxonMobil, BP, Conoco, and like 5 or 6 other companies that you probably know of. It made Rockefeller significantly richer because he owned a small stake in each one, right? They all competed with each other, which boosted their revenue and profits. He made significantly more money because of that. That was the big source of his wealth—when they broke up the company. I would say that if Facebook and Instagram had to compete with each other, it would actually make Zuckerberg richer. The same goes for YouTube and Google; if they had to compete, it would probably make them better and thus the owners a little bit richer.

Shaan Puri

Exactly, I agree. That's why when people talk about breaking up Facebook, it's like, well, you know what this is going to do, right? Like, they're all going to become more valuable, and the services will become better. But it does open up more room for competition. Whereas when they have an absolute stranglehold, then, you know, it may not be as lucrative, and it may not be as good of a product, but it's very hard to break in.

Sam Parr

yeah that was great that that was a that you

Shaan Puri

Well, there's also an opportunity here, right? As I learned this, I was like, "Okay, I know this is not new." But if I just sample the population, it's like on one hand, you do two surveys. One survey they did was, "Hey, did you know about lab-grown [diamonds]? Here's the thing: you can't tell the difference. Look, it's made of the same material composite. It's the same material as diamond; it's just grown in a lab rather than mined from the earth. And hey, you don't have to worry about the ethics of the mining because it's not mined from the earth." Seventy percent of millennials are like, "Yeah, I'm totally open to that. That sounds great." But then, at the same time, the market share hasn't caught up yet. So I think that even though this is not a brand new thing, people could create really valuable brands. I'm curious if somebody listened to this and wants to take an education-based approach to selling this. Because I think the more you educate people, the more willing they are to buy. And if you're the one who educates them, you get that first right of refusal to sell them their first lab-grown diamond.

Sam Parr

And I think I would bet that millennials won't do this, but what's the generation after that? Generation Z, I believe they would. The 18-year-olds, because you know they're so politically correct and they have a high bullshit detector, I believe. For me and my friends, a lot of us were like, "This is not the battle I'm going to choose." Right? I'm just going to buy my way out of this, and we'll fight a different battle. I would argue that there's a good chance that something like that could happen. I don't think it will happen now, but I think in 10 years, when the 18-year-olds get into their twenties and thirties, I would bet my money that that could work as well. So, I'm bullish on this too.

Shaan Puri

yeah that's great alright do we wanna do another episode

Sam Parr

That... yeah, we... this has gotta be our YouTube clip. That was a very well-researched and very good story.

Shaan Puri

very much

Sam Parr

so that's the episode we'll see let's see if this one's a hit I think it was kind of interesting what do you think ben

Ben Wilson

I thought it was great. The De Beers stuff is super, super interesting. The intensity stuff, the sushi story was great. Loved it! It's a good episode.

Shaan Puri

intensity you dunked on somebody this week you said

Sam Parr

did you really

Shaan Puri

can you dunk

Sam Parr

how tall are you he's mormon of course he can dunk

Ben Wilson

oh so I'm 64 apparently

Sam Parr

It's like, isn't it? The basketball love of... like, whenever all my Mormon friends, it seems like they always are playing basketball on Sunday.

Ben Wilson

All of our churches have basketball courts in them. Even non-Mormons play basketball in our churches.

Sam Parr

a lot

Shaan Puri

now are we talking I'm 64 you could do windmills or we're barely scraping the dunk through or what's

Sam Parr

going on

Ben Wilson

So, you know, when I was younger, when I was in high school, I could do like tomahawks, one-eighty dunks, and pretty good dunks. But, you know, over the pandemic, I didn't play basketball for almost a year and a half. I didn't know if I still had it. Last night, I drove down the lane. A buddy of mine jumped with me, and I wasn't planning on doing him like that, but I was there, and I had to do it. I dunked on him.

Sam Parr

can you please send me

Shaan Puri

a video of something like this and I would

Sam Parr

I’ll share it. I’ll tweet it. I don’t think you’re a guy that would lie at all, but I would love to see this. I don’t think that you’re a guy that would even exaggerate a little bit. Yeah, not a good one to see this.

Ben Wilson

I don't have the video of me dunking on the guy but I sure I have video of me dunking so I can

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

Can you send it to me? I would share that in a heartbeat. I would love to brag about that. You're 64? We've never seen Ben in real life, by the way. You're 64.

Ben Wilson

Yeah, the last company I worked for was all remote. We had an off-site where we all met each other for the first time, and everyone was blown away. They were like, "Woah!"

Sam Parr

I didn't know you were so tall I have 1

Shaan Puri

like I I if I were

Ben Wilson

One person at the company told me, "You have short energy. I can't believe you're tall." Wow, I know!

Shaan Puri

Dude, I saw this really hilarious TikTok yesterday where this girl just goes, "Oh, I go around on live streams and I just give people compliments." I call it, "We love our short kings." She goes to tall guys' streams, like normal height or taller guys' streams, and she says, "Yeah, we stan our short king! We love our short king!" with a kissy face. Then, as you clip together their reactions, they're all like, "We love our short king!" and they get excited. They're like, "Wait, what? I'm like 6... I'm 6... I'm 6 and a quarter! I don't know who you call a short king!" And then everybody gets like super butthurt about it right away. It really messes with their brains. She goes, "It's hilarious! Just call them my short king."

Sam Parr

Ben, please send me a video of you dunking on fools. I would love that! That would make my day.

Ben Wilson

I'll send it to you right now sean sam how how tall are both

Shaan Puri

you I'm 6

Sam Parr

I'm 6'1". Yeah, we're both of similar height and weight, I think. I mean, when people meet both of us, they say, "You guys are much bigger than we thought." I would say that when we're together, we look big and tall. And Sean, you look taller than you are, I think, too.

Shaan Puri

oh good I don't know what that means but I'll take it it's better than being called a short king

Sam Parr

well I think it's because you got big hair

Shaan Puri

that's right that's right

Ben Wilson

you know what

Sam Parr

I don't get

Shaan Puri

do you

Ben Wilson

Do you guys feel tall at 6 feet and 6 feet 1? No, I don't. You feel average height, right? Like to me, that's like 6 feet 6. But if you look at global averages or even the American average, the American male height is only 5 feet 9 inches.

Shaan Puri

or some oh 5

Ben Wilson

yeah yeah it's like it's short you guys are super tall which I don't know

Sam Parr

there's a disconnect well then you're a giant

Ben Wilson

I guess so

Sam Parr

Yeah, by that logic, no, I don't feel tall. I feel thicker than the average person, that's for sure.

Shaan Puri

And you, Ben, when you dunked on the guy, did you scream? What did it feel like? I mean, I've never dunked on anyone. I've only dunked a volleyball once; that's the closest I ever got. It was like, actually not even a volleyball, I guess something smaller than a volleyball.

Sam Parr

that's pretty good that's that is pretty good that was like in high school

Shaan Puri

so wasn't great

Ben Wilson

The guy was a friend of mine. We had been playing some pickup at a Mormon church, actually. I just won like four games in a row, and I think people's morale was pretty low. So, I just played it cool. I didn't say anything; I just kind of randomly...

Sam Parr

By the way, I'm not being prejudiced. It's a thing that Mormons like. I've always known that there were basketball courts at the church. It's like your church is a community event, right? You hang out there after church.

Ben Wilson

Yeah, we have weekday events there sometimes, especially for youth. People play basketball there.

Sam Parr

yep yeah so it it it's a thing

Ben Wilson

it is a thing sam it's

Shaan Puri

A Mormon thing to go dunk on someone politely, as you did. It's such a morbid way to politely dunk on someone.

Sam Parr

and then just like and then like to drink a coke I mean I do it too

Ben Wilson

Many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints drink a lot of soda because we don't drink coffee or tea. However, I don't.

Sam Parr

Yeah, whenever I go to Utah, I'll go to the drive-through at these soda places. They've got the best sodas with the weirdest combinations. I love it! So, I'm a Mormon man. I'm an honorary member, I hope.

Shaan Puri

sam are you a coke or pepsi guy

Sam Parr

coke diet coke 0 all the way all day

Shaan Puri

ben coke or pepsi

Ben Wilson

I've I've actually never had either in my entire life

Shaan Puri

What? Oh, amazing! That's amazing. Okay, great. I saw this great Reddit thread that was like "Brands if their slogans were true." It was like truthful brand slogans. The Pepsi one was, "Is Pepsi okay?" It was so clever! It's like the thing at the restaurant: you order a Coke, and then they hit you with, "Is Pepsi okay?"

Sam Parr

Alright, that's the episode. Let's see, we gotta cut those into clips. We had a bunch of good ones. See you!