NEW Haircut At Home Business: Book A Barber Virtually Right Now | My First Million 05/20/2020

Shaan Puri

What's up, guys? Sean here. Sam is out today, but we have my friend Greg Eisenberg filling in. Greg is a great dude; you guys will like him a lot. He's been a founder of a couple of companies and sold two of them—one to StumbleUpon and one to WeWork. He's at WeWork now and is an investor in companies. He's a cool guy, and you guys will really appreciate him. He has a real knack for designing products. So, anytime there's a social or consumer product, he's one of the best thinkers around. I think you guys will see that as we spend the first half of the conversation talking a little bit about his background. In the second half, we go through a bunch of random ideas he has on his notes app on his phone, just for fun. I think you guys will enjoy it! Tweet at me, @SeanVP, and tweet at Greg. Let us know what you think about the episode. As always, enjoy! Hope everybody's doing great out there in the quarantine. Keep hustling, building stuff, and keep yourself busy with good things. Alright, take care and enjoy the episode. Okay, so I should introduce you. Greg is on the podcast. Greg is a homie from—I don't know how long I've known you, a few years at least. I guess the world probably now knows you for your haircut website, right? It's true! Explain what that is. What is the URL? You probably need a haircut, is that it?

Greg Isenberg

youprobablyneedahaircut.com yeah we're the the busiest virtual barbershop on the internet

Shaan Puri

Dude, so what happened? Okay, people are in quarantine and they need haircuts. How does this idea go from a little germ, a little sperm in your head, to a real idea out there?

Greg Isenberg

I mean, you know me. I get sort of excited about stuff that goes viral. I was talking to a buddy of mine; he's a stylist who was out of work and couldn't pay his rent. I was like, "I need a haircut. I like to look good." So, I built the MVP and then just threw it on Product Hunt. Before I knew it, it was on the Today Show and ABC. Basically, the way it works is pretty simple. For people who need haircuts, they book an appointment and get connected to a virtual stylist. They can either cut their own hair or have a friend cut their hair for them.

Shaan Puri

And so, this is a dope idea. When it came out, I was like, "Who's behind this?" I know I feel like I know the person behind it. I didn't know it was you, but I was like, "I feel like it's either you, it's Alex too, or it's like, you know, one of you sort of viral meme-ers of products." Yeah, I feel like actually, in general, I've spent hours brainstorming with you before. I feel like for you to get excited about building something, it's gotta start with some emotion. Like, either you think of something that makes you laugh and then you're just giggling, but you're serious about it once you start laughing, or it's some really sad story and you're like, "Okay, this is an injustice in the world. I want to go solve." But is that a fair characterization?

Greg Isenberg

You know, I mean, I do like things that kind of go viral. For me, you probably need a haircut. I told my girlfriend, "I'm 100% sure this is going to go viral." She asked, "How do you know? How do you know?" I explained, "Well, like the name and kind of, you know, where we're at. It was the timing. You just see it with a couple of journalists, and you know, throw it up on Product Hunt. Before you know it, we probably had 150,000 uniques in the first 24 hours."

Shaan Puri

how many actual haircuts

Greg Isenberg

Probably more... probably over 1,000 at this. Yeah, definitely actually more than that. We have one stylist who did 200, so yeah, more.

Shaan Puri

A 1000 public speaking event where they're like, "Hey, can you send me your bio?" This absolutely needs to be the first thing. You know, I have conducted over a hundred thousand haircuts over the internet.

Greg Isenberg

and the crazy thing is that people like actually look good like I've I've I've

Shaan Puri

well the crazy thing is you don't have a haircut right now you're growing it up

Greg Isenberg

The crazy thing is, try booking a haircut like this weekend. You can't! The site is busy. You know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm out here; I gotta make it happen for the people.

Shaan Puri

I love it! There's a reason I have this hat on. You know, your boy butchered himself with his own 2 AM haircut using his own clippers without using your website. And you can't see my hair, so that's why. Alright, so let's give people some background and then we're going to shoot the shit as we do. Sure, Greg, first, do you remember when you became a millionaire? Do you remember the day?

Greg Isenberg

of course you always remember the day

Shaan Puri

tell me about the day but I but

Greg Isenberg

I actually like, you know, where I started. I've never publicly said this, but where I started to actually make a little bit of money was really as a teenager doing affiliate marketing.

Shaan Puri

oh affiliate marketing

Greg Isenberg

in like the underbelly of the internet

Shaan Puri

yes

Greg Isenberg

And you know, not a lot of people talk about it, but there are actually a lot of great entrepreneurs who came from that area. I think Julian Smith, who was also in that era, is one of them. I actually remember 2008; it was my 18th birthday, and I was doing affiliate marketing. Basically, I was making deals with companies like eHarmony, Match.com, and Zynga, who were willing to pay you $3, $4, $5, or $6 for every install you generated for them. Back then, there was this arbitrage— I mean, there's still arbitrage now— but there was this opportunity where if you could create a landing page that cost you $1 to get someone to install that game or get that lead to eHarmony, they would pay you $5.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

So, I would just figure out some innovative ways to do it. You know, one thing I did, which I invented, was the auto-playing video pop-under ad, which ruined the internet.

Shaan Puri

were you desperately trying to find which tab is playing the sound

Greg Isenberg

Well, we did it for a poker company, and yeah, that's it. Basically, I remember getting like 1-2% conversions on it. This was a pop-under ad that cost like a fraction of a penny. But you know, from that whole experience of working in affiliate marketing as a teenager, it really taught me what people want. I didn't grow up poor or anything, but my parents weren't giving me a lot of money to go and buy the things that I wanted. So I was like, "Okay, I'm going to have to go out there and do it myself." I ended up building, you know, I put in like $100 a month on this landing page, then $1,000, and it sort of grew. You really pay attention if it's your own money. You really do pay attention. The difference between a 1% conversion rate or a 0.2% conversion rate can mean making $100 a day or losing $100 a day. At bigger scales, it can mean losing $100,000 a day or gaining $100,000 a day. If you realize it's around just subtle details, like having a woman with red hair or having the eyes look at you on the landing page, or certain copy— all these little nuanced things add up to getting people to do things on the internet.

Shaan Puri

Totally. Me and I think Furkan, the CTO, the head of my startup, we used to literally look for hires. Can we find anyone who's done affiliate marketing? Because we were like, people who understand those arbitrages actually understand how the internet works. They understand what makes people click, what drives them to actually take action, and how the economics of the internet works—how to move traffic around. And that's probably... it's not a great long-term path, but it is like a great place to sharpen your sword. So that then you can do damage with products that actually matter or like more sustainable businesses versus these kind of, you know, moment-in-time arbitrages.

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, I tweeted the other day, actually. I was like, the people I want to hire if I'm building a consumer internet thing are game developers, game product people, or game marketers. I also want affiliate marketers. Those are the people that understand game dynamics, mechanics, and social mechanics. They know how to build... you know, game companies have very sophisticated marketing funnels and understand the flow very well. The same goes for affiliate marketers; those are the people that have been there, done that, and are probably undervalued in the market.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, and then you went on and did a bunch of other things. You had an agency that was kind of like building websites for bigger brands. Yes, then you did... We had James Altucher on the last one, and he said he did the same thing. Basically, that was because his first hit was like making AmericanExpress.com or whatever those websites were.

Greg Isenberg

Well, yeah. After the affiliate marketing, I mean, no one's lower on the totem pole in terms of status and reputation than domainers and affiliate marketers. So I was just like, "How do I gain credibility?" I got into the agency game and said I would only work with the top clients.

Shaan Puri

which is all status

Greg Isenberg

all status like 100% status so we and did you have

Shaan Puri

Do you have any status symbols, like a dope car or anything like that? Did you do anything to play the status game?

Greg Isenberg

I mean... not... I mean, I feel like for us, like internet entrepreneurs, that's not even the status. The status isn't dope cars or dope houses. I feel like it's more about...

Shaan Puri

you have a clubhouse invite or not

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, exactly. That's what you know, whatever is cool at the moment. So, I ended up starting this agency called **Stress Limit Design**. We ended up doing high-profile projects like the **TechCrunch redesign**, which was in 2010. That was a big deal and it spawned a lot of business. I think you had Andrew Wilkinson from **Tiny** on the show. We had a similar model where we took a percentage of our revenue and built our own startups. The startups were really all around this idea of building mostly community. For example, we built **StartCooking.com**, which at the time was the largest video cooking site on the internet. We also created a company called **Wall Street Survivor**, which became the most popular financial education and stock market simulator on the internet. It was all about looking at a vertical and building something that people really wanted, then wrapping it around community.

Shaan Puri

yep

Greg Isenberg

So I did that, and then I realized I wanted to go do something. I wanted to do the whole San Francisco thing. I was living in Montreal, Canada at the time, and I'm like, "I want to go do the whole..." This was like post-*The Social Network* [movie], right around when it came out, probably around 2012 maybe.

Shaan Puri

And what did you think was "hot shit" back then? Were you reading certain blogs? Was it Twitter? Was it the social network, the movie? What was hot shit? Because I literally moved to San Francisco in 2012, and my journey was like... I was starting a restaurant. I was trying to create the Chipotle of sushi at the time, which ended up becoming this cloud kitchen. Then, a mentor gave me the book *The Lean Startup*, and I was like, "Oh shit, yes! We should test if there's demand before we pour everything into this and sign personal guarantees for this lease." That led me to Paul Graham's essays, and I was like, "Oh, this guy, this Paul Graham guy, this is the shit! I don't know why his website looks like this, but this is amazing." So then I started to, you know, drink the Kool-Aid of Silicon Valley. I picked up and moved from Australia just off of the Kool-Aid. I changed my phone number; I was like, "Here's a San Francisco phone number. That means I'm in. I'm committed." And then I moved. So, what got you hooked?

Greg Isenberg

I mean, I'm like a product designer. For me, it was really... I love social apps. So, for me, it was really like the path. Like, Path, you know? That was like so cool back then, you know?

Shaan Puri

it was yeah

Greg Isenberg

Path, yeah. So for those of you who don't remember, it was kind of a... you know, it was based on this idea around Dunbar's number, which is that a person only really has about 150 relationships. So [they thought], what if you designed a social network around 150 people? Like, private and just super well-designed and beautiful. They were way ahead of their time. Danny Trin invented things like reactions and stuff like that.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

I remember looking at a lot of those people, like the Digg guys, the StumbleUpon guys, and just thinking, "You needed to be there." You needed to be there, and even if you took quick trips, it just felt like there was something special going on in that era. So [I] came down.

Shaan Puri

you're speaking past tense you still think that's that's true or that's not true anymore

Greg Isenberg

I mean, I think for me, the Bay Area is very much... I mean, listen, it's a wonderful place. But I think for most people, it's very much like a college experience. If you're not from there, it's like you go there for 4, 6, 8, or even 10 years. You do your stint.

Shaan Puri

build your network

Greg Isenberg

As much as possible, you build your network and then you bring it to wherever you're from or whatever major city you live near.

Shaan Puri

I still live where do you live now

Greg Isenberg

no I live in new york city now

Shaan Puri

okay nice yeah did you sell your place here or what

Greg Isenberg

yeah it's gone on

Shaan Puri

you know craig had this fat house here in san francisco it was awesome it was a great great little play place

Greg Isenberg

I mean, that was crazy. It was like a community place. It wasn't even my place, but we threw so many events there. You know, you came to some.

Shaan Puri

You know, it was a lot of work stuff. If instead of working, you just partied there, it was like a co-partying space.

Greg Isenberg

It was wonderful. It was awesome. I do miss it. So, yeah, I think that's what drew me to San Francisco. I started something called **5 Buy**, which basically took a look at all the popular video apps like YouTube and Vimeo, and integrated with all these sources. We built a beautiful curation layer on top of it. So that when you pressed the "funny" button, you'd actually get videos that would make you laugh. Yep, and we sold that to StumbleUpon, which is Garrett Camp's company. At the time, it was one of the largest social apps by referring traffic.

Shaan Puri

So, you ended up being within reach of being able to invest in Uber, right? Because you knew Garrett. Do you remember the first time you heard that he was doing this Uber thing?

Greg Isenberg

I mean, I don't remember exactly, but I remember when I met him. You know, Uber was... it was a thing. It wasn't obviously what it is today, but I definitely wasn't like, "Hey, take my money!"

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

You know, I think... but you know, I guess you live and you learn.

Shaan Puri

you live and you learn

Greg Isenberg

I have a friend who, you know, Garrett pitched him. He was in New York City. This is one of the smartest guys I know. Garrett pitched him on the seed round of Uber, and this was in Manhattan. He was just like, "Garrett, I don't know what you're thinking about, man. People aren't going to like press a button and a car is going to come. You just, you know, raise your hand, look at me," and he raises his hand, "the car comes."

Shaan Puri

watch this

Greg Isenberg

Watch this... Bam! You know, it's about creating a product that's 10 times better. This isn't just a "10x" quote unquote.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's true. In New York, it actually wasn't right. It just wasn't in a whole bunch of other places. It's like people with crypto, they're like, "Oh, watch this credit card! Boom! Paid for coffee, I'm done!" You know, "Look at this bank! I don't need to worry about my money." It's like, well, yeah, but that's not the experience for most people in most of the world. So maybe this doesn't solve your problem, but it's going to solve somebody's.

Greg Isenberg

exactly so we need to solve that

Shaan Puri

are you a crypto guy

Greg Isenberg

Am I a crypto guy? I have some crypto... not enough crypto to *really* have some crypto. I dabble. I mean, my whole thing is like everyone should have 2 to 5% of their net worth in crypto as a hedge.

Shaan Puri

Right, I calculated the other day that I think I'm at 9%. I was like, "Am I going a little too crazy with this?" But then I was like, "No, no, it's okay. It's at 9%. That's acceptable; it's in the acceptable range."

Greg Isenberg

I'm at 7.5% so you're and this all grows

Shaan Puri

Right, so as it grows, the thing is, are you going to sell off? No, no. So yeah, not going to sell off.

Greg Isenberg

we'll see if this ages well on this podcast

Shaan Puri

The other thing is like "pay to learn" in a way, right? It's like, "Dude, okay, this is interesting. I need to get in the game. I need to get a little bit of skin in the game." Just to be, you know, if not sort of driving things in that space, but at least I'm in the passenger seat or the back seat or the trunk. Like, I'm involved in the journey of where that's going by putting a little bit of skin in the game. So I highly recommend that too, because that's been my approach with a lot of things now: just **pay to learn**, right?

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, I think for me, I learn best when I'm just pushed into the ground. Just push me into the arena and listen. I've lost a lot of opportunities and I've learned a lot of things. You just have to assume that you're in it for the long game. Life is long, hopefully, and it's all about getting at-bats—trying different things. You know, build good relationships, and in the end, you'll be fine if you learn and if you have a lot of...

Shaan Puri

Alright, this episode is brought to you by Superside. Here's the deal: I'm incredibly impatient—like, horribly, horribly impatient. If I get an idea at midnight, by 8 AM the next day, I want it done. You know? But that's really hard because if something needs to be designed, where am I gonna find a designer at midnight to try to make this thing and bring it to life? I don't think I'm alone. Other startups, even huge companies, need design help fast, and they just don't have the internal resources or expertise to get it done. So how do you get reliable design done without dealing with expensive agencies and lots of freelancers? You use Superside! That's our sponsor for this week. Just go to superside.com/mfm and tell them what you want. They have a team of designers that can get it done fast. They are 20 times faster than hiring a designer and 50% more affordable than a traditional agency. So if you need high-quality design done fast, try Superside. Lots of fast-growing teams that are stretched are using them already. Check them out at superside.com/mfm. I've used them before, and I love them. Check it out!

Greg Isenberg

So, we sold the business to StumbleUpon and ran it as an independent unit. We also helped out StumbleUpon as well. I left and grew that to be one of the fastest-growing video discovery apps at the time. I left in 2015 and started Islands, which was based on the thesis that group chat is the new social network. The idea was to verticalize, so you'd have a place to talk with your workplace friends, which became Slack, and a place to talk with your gamer friends, which became platforms like Discord. We focused on just the college market, so we raised a couple of million dollars on the idea, and away we went.

Shaan Puri

and then what's your story on how that ended up

Greg Isenberg

So, the story is we sold the business to WeWork in May 2019. I would have loved to have continued building it out. It had amazing metrics. For example, the daily active users would send between 30 and 50 messages every single day. Weekly active users would open the app 47 times per week. The average user would invite 2.1 people. It was a beautiful product; people loved it. So, it had engagement, and retention was 50% over 45 days. That's pretty damn good for a social app—above what you'd normally see. But when I went out in the market to raise money, I wanted to raise a lot of money. The reason I wanted to raise it is that we were seeing 5 to 25% penetration in every school we launched at within a couple of weeks. We had all these metrics, so it was just like, "Hey, give us money so we can scale this to every college in the United States." At the time, this was around the Facebook antitrust issues. Twitter wasn't really innovating that much; they had a lot of concerns about the health of the product. Snapchat's stock was at $5.90. Social media was kind of stagnant, and Houseparty was flat. No one wanted to look at it. I could have raised $2, $3, or $4 million to continue it, but I was kind of like, "I'm very much, and you are too, like a go big or go home" type of person. I just figured, "Yeah, let's find a good home for you."

Shaan Puri

You went home? Oh, I know. Okay, gotcha. Alright, so tell me, what's got your interest now? What do you do on a day-to-day basis nowadays?

Greg Isenberg

So, I am the head of product at WeWork, which is an awesome and interesting place to be. I'm also a co-founder of a product studio called Late Checkout, which spun up the "Probably Need a Haircut" idea, among other ideas. It's kind of a reincarnation of what we had with Stress Limit. It's part agency, part product studio. I've been an adviser for the last year and a half to two years for TikTok, which has been amazing to see because they've obviously grown tremendously. So, I've been keeping busy.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, okay, nice. So, people, when they listen to this, what they like to hear about is meeting interesting people. So, I think that's a check. The second part is that the people who are listening are either current entrepreneurs in the market doing something, or they're people who have a job and are thinking about making the shift, or they're college students thinking about making the leap. One of the things that we do a lot is we sort of guess and check or pontificate on, you know, "Why doesn't somebody solve this problem?" or "Wouldn't it be cool if you did this?" or "Hey, that thing's working. What if you applied it in this other way?" So, I'm curious, do you have, I don't know, do you have like in your phone a notes app of startup ideas, half-baked startup ideas?

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, I have probably... there's probably over 100 ideas here. I thought what might be fun, because you mentioned that just before, you're like, "Oh hey, do you have any ideas?" I have a notes file. I could literally just...

Shaan Puri

yeah let's do it

Greg Isenberg

I can play we could play a game where I just go like this and

Shaan Puri

just spin the wheel

Greg Isenberg

spin the wheel

Shaan Puri

yeah let's do it

Greg Isenberg

alright pulling it up

Shaan Puri

alright are you

Greg Isenberg

okay some of them are like you had a couple of glass of wine

Shaan Puri

no no no I understand I understand

Greg Isenberg

alright metamucil for millennials

Shaan Puri

what about metamucil does what it's rehydrating or it's like diarrhea or whatever fiber

Greg Isenberg

fiber

Shaan Puri

fiber okay

Greg Isenberg

So I think the genesis of this one was... you know, I think I love subscription-based businesses. I love businesses that are like repeatable.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

people who take metamucil take it every day

Shaan Puri

mhmm

Greg Isenberg

mostly to get their routine

Shaan Puri

yeah

Greg Isenberg

Kind of intact routine, yeah. A lot of brands right now are just being rethought of with... obviously as D2C [Direct-to-Consumer] with like, kind of a nice brand. I don't connect with Metamucil, I'll tell you that.

Shaan Puri

not at all yes you

Greg Isenberg

know may it's just so it's like that's like a no brainer

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I like that one. In fact, when I did a podcast with the guy who created Soylent, he was like, "Yeah, you know, part of the original thesis was kind of like... I forgot what the other shake is called, Ensure. It's like Ensure for millennials." They don't market it that way, but they were thinking about it that way early on. And so, Metamucil is another one. Alright, I like it. I give that a solid 9 out of 10. Actually, you came out hot with that one.

Greg Isenberg

alright spin again

Shaan Puri

yeah spin again

Greg Isenberg

Alright, SecondOpinion.com. When you need a second opinion on literally anything.

Shaan Puri

okay these are experts giving you opinions or what

Greg Isenberg

I don't know, man. Being an adult is hard, right? We have to deal with it, and sometimes we need relationship advice. Sometimes we need help fixing something. You know what I've learned from you? People are actually open to getting help, and they'll pay for it. So, imagine you're having a big fight with your girlfriend, and you want to tell someone, but you want an unbiased opinion. You need a second opinion based on the text that you're going to say. That's where SecondOpinion.com comes in—here to help!

Shaan Puri

Great domain if you could get it! Okay, I like this. What vertical would be the best? That's kind of where this gets interesting to me because... where would you start? And you know, maybe you actually just end there because it's... yeah, you specialize. But if nothing else, you start with one where people really want this or people really have this problem. So, where could it be hot?

Greg Isenberg

So, a good framework for thinking about consumer internet products is: What is the thing that's going to get a lot of media attention? You want free customers, and word-of-mouth is the best customer, anyway. So, why don't you just reverse engineer what would be a good PR story? That's just one way to look at the MVP, right? It's like, what's the minimal viable press release?

Shaan Puri

Or, so somebody was doing this for dating profiles. Especially as Tinder got popular, that was the time when someone said, "Oh my God, there are Tinder coaches! They'll give you an objective opinion on your profile and how you're coming across." You pay for it, and that's actually a thing. That worked when there was kind of a wave of internet interest. You know, Tinder itself was newsworthy, and then you could piggyback off that. In the way that you guys sort of piggybacked off of all the quarantine woes, you probably made a haircut. So, you'd probably want to find something that people are already talking about, and then you sort of offer a second opinion around that space.

Greg Isenberg

Exactly. So, you know, maybe... yeah, one idea is to start with relationship advice because that's evergreen. That's always relevant. But then you launch the viral piece of it.

Shaan Puri

should I get a divorce.com

Greg Isenberg

Or I was even thinking more along the lines of, you have to answer the "why now?" The "why now?" is like a lot of single people are asking themselves, "Should I go on a date with this person?" Like an in-person date, less than 6 feet, let's say. Or should I make out with Johnny? Then you press the button and it's like, "No," or something like that. So I think that's where it comes down to. Yeah, like building little games, building little nuanced things that surprise people, delight people. People want to write about it.

Shaan Puri

okay love it spin again

Greg Isenberg

this is kind of like

Shaan Puri

I'm gonna give that one a 6 and a half out of 10

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, this is maybe even a 3.5 out of 10, but like we're picking random ones here. **TextMeASecret.com** This is... I didn't do a full spin, so I guess it was related to SecondOpinion.com, but like, we all have secrets and a lot of the time we want to talk about those secrets.

Shaan Puri

get them off our chest

Greg Isenberg

get them off our chat chest so this is a service that does that here's another one

Shaan Puri

Oh, I like that idea. So, here's what I'm imagining: I get matched with someone, and it tells me a little bit about them. For example, "29 years old, male, San Francisco, rich." Then, basically, I don't know more than that. They can open up, or you can sort of roulette wheel and get to the next person. It's a secret network of telling secrets to each other.

Greg Isenberg

yeah man absolutely

Shaan Puri

Model is blackmail. It's genius! We'll make millions. We'll make millions. I'm doing the money burns, you know, evil, evil hands.

Greg Isenberg

Next idea, which is a bit more the opposite of this idea, and more, you know, nice for the world, is a wash and fold service for low-income families. A lot of people, especially in New York City, but you know, everywhere in the world in cities, spend a lot of time in laundromats.

Shaan Puri

mhmm

Greg Isenberg

And if you're a working mom or working dad, you know, sitting for 2-3 hours at a laundromat is a lot of unproductive time. That time could either be spent with your children or doing a side hustle, or whatever it is, right? So, how do you do wash and fold and just take that out of the equation so that they can focus on what it is they want to be doing?

Shaan Puri

And so, this is just philanthropic. It's like it will be taken care of for you. We're going to give back hours of productivity to the people who need it.

Greg Isenberg

yes absolutely

Shaan Puri

okay alright

Greg Isenberg

Here's another one: Spotify, but for work in progress. It's called Watercolors. The whole idea here is, okay, life is messy. There's a reason why there's an eraser at the end of a pencil. But when you go on Spotify, it's all these highly curated pieces of content. I've produced this piece of content for the last 6 years, and this is, you know, here it is.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

What if... what if artists could put just like little pieces of work that are unfinished and create almost like a SoundCloud-type website or app? And it's called... yeah, what do they call it? Watercolors? I don't know why I called it Watercolors, but... so the...

Shaan Puri

So, for the unfinished thing, would it be like a dribble? Where it's like a shot? It's like, yeah, 10 seconds of the song. It's not the whole thing raw; it's a snippet that you like or riff.

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, it could be whatever the artist decides. If the artist decides they want to do a 10-second thing, great. This is like, "Here, check this riff." But I just think that there's a whole dimension of music that we're not exploring. I'd also think that it's just kind of like... I want to see more apps, I want to see more websites where it's fine to put unfinished work. I think that's a part of the creative process, and I think that it's a good message that we should be spreading.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I think stories are an awesome format for unfinished things. Just like stories got people to share little raw moments of their life because they're like, "Look, it's gone after 24 hours." I feel like if you can make it ephemeral, then more people would share. The question really is, why don't people share more unfinished work? Then you would work backwards from that. Like, "Well, here's my objection, here's my hesitation, here's what I'm worried about." Then you could figure out product design that will solve those problems.

Greg Isenberg

Well, yeah, I think, to speak to that, you know, artists—and I include myself as an artist because I'm a product designer—we like to show our best work. Putting unfinished work isn't, quote unquote, our best work. So I think a part of this is a big challenge. But I think educating the artist around like, "It's okay. It's cool." In fact, if you're an artist with hundreds of thousands of followers, or even if you just have like 1,000 really engaged people, they want to interact. I know this one artist; he has 2,000 followers, but he posts on stories little unfinished things, and I'm like, "Post more of this!"

Shaan Puri

Right, yeah, I'm with you. I used to call it "working in public," and then somebody sent me this link. I think it was Jessica Livingston or somebody else who was calling it "working with the garage door open." I don't know who I was reading, but they were saying, "Imagine your startup, you know, you're starting in the garage. But what if you had the garage door rolled open?" What are the sort of serendipitous benefits you could have of putting your work out there in public?

Greg Isenberg

mhmm another you want one you want a couple more

Shaan Puri

yes yes

Greg Isenberg

I get it; we can literally do this for hours. This is just a concept. So, I just wrote down some cool ideas that take something free and then charge for them. For example, think of water bottles. No one was charging for water until someone said, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could transport this water and sell it?" Then, we could have a luxury brand, like Evian, which is from France. This created a whole new category. The founder of Gumroad tweeted the other day, "If you want to make $10 an hour..." Did you see that tweet?

Shaan Puri

no I didn't see that

Greg Isenberg

You want to make like $10 an hour? Go work for someone. You want to make $100 an hour? Charge companies or something like that. I'm butchering it here, but if you want to make $1,000 an hour... The idea is, if you want to make $10,000 an hour, create a new category and be the leader in that new category. I'm always interested in new categories, like a virtual barbershop. You know, it may not work, but it might work. And if it works, it's going to work big. Think of Uber—a new category. It's really just about being on-demand and using technology to bring a car to you. New category... boom!

Shaan Puri

Yeah, for sure. So, what's something that's free that could be charged for? For example, water is a good example. You know, when you first said that, my brain was like, "Oh, air." But actually, air is also charged for—air purifiers, diffusers, things like that, humidifiers. There are ways that people have found to essentially charge for air in a way. They're processing it, but they're doing it. What else is free that could be charged for? So, content is... I...

Greg Isenberg

Mean, or put another way: What are the things that we take for granted as human beings that we can charge for? And that opens up a whole other set of products and services.

Shaan Puri

And those are hard because those are blind spots, right? You have to actually think hard because they are just embedded in the world. You don't even realize that they're sticking out because they're... you take them for granted by definition.

Greg Isenberg

Absolutely! And that's why, like, I had... before we were chatting, someone called me and was like, "Greg, where do you see the consumer internet going?" I was like, "This stuff comes out of nowhere. This stuff literally comes out of nowhere." You can look back in hindsight and be like, "Oh yeah, we can connect the dots for these reasons." But I think the dots are actually pretty messy to connect if we really look at it. I think the best consumer businesses are kind of somewhat random. They're somewhat random, and it's based on an entrepreneur just being obsessed with... like, I think of Ben Rubin, for example, the founder of Houseparty. He's an architect. He thinks of Houseparty as these rooms, sort of physical spaces, you know, digital representations of these physical spaces. The guy has spent years studying to be an architect and has obsessed his entire teenage years about presence, right? And what that means. So, it's not because in 2016 or whatever, 2015, live video was important. Why? You know, it was like... no, the guy's literally been thinking about it forever, and he's like the expert in the world on it.

Shaan Puri

Have you ever seen this video of Evan Spiegel from Snapchat? He's in a kitchen, and he's explaining Snapchat on a notebook, just like a notepad of paper. He flips it three times, and those are his slides, essentially. Have you seen this video?

Greg Isenberg

I have it's actually everyone should watch that

Shaan Puri

everyone should watch this video

Greg Isenberg

Because it's... he's taking... when you go through that, it's... he, like, I've never met him, but he's such a... like, you just realize that he's amazing. He's able to distill a really, quote unquote, complicated sort of... like, he just makes it so simple. I think the beauty of it is, like, everyone on his team could look at that and be like, "Oh yeah," and then they repeat it to other people. Yeah, what's Snapchat? Oh, it's so hard to use. No, actually, it's so simple.

Shaan Puri

Right, exactly. Yeah, the video is amazing. I just remember one detail in it about the product design. He explains first, you know, why it opens up to the camera so you can take a photo. It's meant to be... he's like, basically, photos today are thought of as memories. You take a photo and you're stashing it away for essentially your keepsake. He's like, but we use photos for communication. We just think if you send somebody a photo, it's a great way to communicate what you're doing and how you're feeling. If you take a photo of your face, it's better than typing in any way. So, he's like, first, Snapchat is just using photos and videos for communication, not for memories. It's like, boom, insight one. Insight two, he's like, and then we created this thing called Stories. For Stories, you know, what we wanted to do... he's like, every social network is reverse chronological. You open up your feed and you see sort of the latest thing first. He's like, but that's not how our brains are really wired. You know, we communicate through story, and that's what we remember. So, when you click on a Snapchat Story, it starts from the beginning, then it goes to the middle and end. It sounds like, obviously, duh, but that was counterintuitive. Twitter was reverse chronological, Instagram was reverse chronological, Facebook was reverse chronological, and your email was reverse chronological. So, with Stories, it's like when we do it beginning, middle, end, you know, when somebody clicks your thing, they're going to experience it the way you are wanting to tell that story. I was like, oh, okay, the guy's a genius! That's what that is. It's taking complicated things, making them simple, or taking things that seem simple on the surface and showing how much is actually below the surface—how much thought went into crafting that simple experience.

Greg Isenberg

yeah I think what I like about that is like he starts with the key insight

Shaan Puri

Well, it's like the saying goes, "A picture's worth a thousand words." This is one way of looking at it. Communicating through photos is a richer way of conveying messages than through text or calling someone, right? So, yeah, great! People do this, and that's sort of like their immediate reaction. They think, "I can just go to iMessage, upload a photo, hit send, and send that to you." The first insight is that people use photos for memories. They should use them for communication as well. It's a really effective way to communicate—that's the insight. Then, he changed the "how." He thought, "What if we reduce the friction to zero?" So, yeah, you could open up iMessage, click your friend's name, click the camera button, click the gallery button, find the photo, and then hit send. Then they get it, and they view it. Or, you could open up our app, where the camera's already open. You just take the photo and send it to as many friends as you want—one to many—and like boom, it's done! So, they changed the "how" and lowered the friction of getting people to do what they already wanted to do.

Greg Isenberg

So I think it starts with the key insight. Next, it goes to: what is the community that has a burning need for this? A mistake a lot of people make is they create software and then they find the community, versus finding the community and then building the software.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

So, you know, with this particular key insight, the way it relates to the community... I mean, Snapchat started off in high schools in Los Angeles at like preppy, preppy, preppy, preppy [schools].

Shaan Puri

you

Greg Isenberg

You know, $50,000 a year high schools, and these people were sending... their kids are sending like naked pictures, they're sending pictures of drugs, they're sending things that their parents don't want them to see. Or just... making... or just basically things that their parents don't want to see. So actually, we...

Shaan Puri

Should I change one thing? The unique insight wasn't just that they use it for communication. It's that when photos stick around forever, people feel hesitant to share. It sucks. There's a whole bunch of things we want to share that we don't want to stick around forever. So, the ephemerality was sort of the key mechanic.

Greg Isenberg

So, the second piece is burning. You know, what is the burning need for the community? Then, the third, I think, is like, "Okay, how?" Like, what is... okay, now you want to build software. Now explain to me how that ladders up to 12 and why this is the most beautiful and the fastest. You know, if you have those three—forget decks, forget like business plans—just show me 1, 2, 3. If you show me 1, 2, 3, like the market for... you know, when people looked at Uber initially, people were like, "On-demand black car in San Francisco? Come on."

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

Central small market? What are you talking about? I know people who did that, and it's like... yeah, but sometimes you can't always pick a really big market. Sometimes those small markets actually expand to be new categories in really big markets. So I think you've got to play the field. I think you've got to also look at small, you've got to look at medium, and look at large. I don't think that if the market is small, you should be like, "I can't do this."

Shaan Puri

Right, and I guess if we're being honest with Snapchat, they didn't realize that high school was the community that would need this the most. What ended up happening was they built it while they were in school. Summer hit, and usage was pretty flat. They were thinking, "Oh, college kids want to do this," which ended up being true. College kids did want to use it to send photos from parties and whatnot—photos you don't want to stick around forever. Then, somebody introduced it to their niece or something like that, and basically in the school, I think they were using it on iPads to send messages to each other across classrooms or whatever. The teachers couldn't catch it, basically because the messages were destroyed—burn after reading. Essentially, do I have the history correct?

Greg Isenberg

yeah that's it that's it

Shaan Puri

And then with Uber, it's the same thing. I think they also probably thought it was a small market because neither Garrett nor Travis ran the company initially. They hired a guy, "Hey, you know, a guy off Twitter wants to run this thing? Sure, come on over." And he became a billionaire. But like, I think if they knew what Uber would become, they'd probably have run it from day one themselves. I think they sort of observed over time, "Holy shit, there's a lot of pull here," and then this could go even further. So, you know, it progressively stacked up from there.

Greg Isenberg

I agree, and I think, for the people listening, it's important to consider what you want to spend your time doing. Think about what you have spent your time doing and what you have spent your life doing. Why do you have this unique advantage? What are some key insights that you can have about the world that you could share?

Shaan Puri

so what what's the answer for you

Greg Isenberg

I mean, I have a lot. I've had a... you know, I think every person has had unique insights or unique backgrounds. For example, my family used to own stores in Quebec for, I don't know, a hundred years. Because of that, every Saturday my mom would drop me off at the mall where my dad's store was. I spent a lot of time in a mall, frankly, because my mom was there, my dad was there, and my dad was working. So, I kind of walked around and got to know the mall really well. I've learned I have a unique perspective on the world in terms of commerce. I think about what the mall represents as a meeting place for people—young people and old people. Why are they there? What are the types of restaurants there? Why is there a restaurant? Why is the food court here? I also think about how things are merchandised. One of the big reasons I became a product designer was because I saw that if you put a product near the lineup, people will buy it. I was like, "Wow!" The UI/UX, you know, the interface and user experience of the physical world is a real thing, and that just led me to digital.

Shaan Puri

Right, yeah, for sure. So, I like that. Basically, there's one school of thought, and I think this is the Paul Graham school of thought. This is where I got this idea from. He basically says, "If you want to invent the future, just live in the future and then invent what's missing." It's not sort of this crazy thing. It's like back to some quote where it's like, "If you want to paint the perfect painting, become perfect and then just paint." But the idea is, if you already do something in your lifestyle that is unusual, that is sort of forward-thinking in some way, maybe you're somebody who doesn't own your house. You rent, and you rent your car, and you rent everything. Then the sharing economy is quite obvious to you. If you go and do couch surfing and you think that's normal, Airbnb is a normal idea for you, even though it's abnormal to others. But to you, you're like, "No, I live in this future where this is true." Right? I push a button and my groceries appear. Not everybody does that today, but I live in that future where that exists, and I'm going to sort of enable that for more people.

Greg Isenberg

right

Shaan Puri

And so, one way of looking at it is: what are things that are normal to you? It's normal for me to record something and have hundreds of thousands of people I've never met listen to me in their earballs every morning while they commute to work. They feel like they know me. That's a normal thing for me, but not for most. However, maybe there's something that I could sort of make my normal, normal for others. So that's one way of thinking about it. What you said is sort of the counter to that or the complement to that, which is: you know, don't try to get interested in sort of new things to try to create a company. Look at what you're already interested in, the life you've already lived. There are embedded insights, domain expertise, and nuance that you understand because you live that way. Then think, how do I start something that leverages those insights and that experience that I've already had?

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, and be mindful of the fact, like, "Oh hey, why do I love this?" Why do I love spending time at the mall? Or why do I love looking at how things are merchandised and stuff like that? Being like, "Wow, I have an eye for that." Let your imagination go wild and think, "Oh, you know, it would be cool if you could do this." You know, like, "What if you could do that?" Then that's when you start thinking, "Oh yeah, wouldn't it be cool if you could create something?" That's when a business is created to fill that void.

Shaan Puri

And what are some of the most interesting products or startups you've seen? What are some of the existing things that have caught your eye lately?

Greg Isenberg

So, I'm just gonna pull up my phone. There's an app—have you heard of it? I was playing with it today. It's called "It's Me." Do you know "It's Me"?

Shaan Puri

no is this the avidio app

Greg Isenberg

yes

Shaan Puri

okay I think I had it before but I I forgot what it is

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, so it recently started to kind of take off. The way it works is you log in with Snapchat. It pulls your Bitmoji, and you say your age if you want to meet with girls, guys, or both. It's chat roulette style; you press a button, and it connects you to someone. It says a bit about where they're from, who they are, and you see your avatar talk. So, you're talking, but you see yourself as an avatar.

Shaan Puri

yep

Greg Isenberg

And I think what I find, you know, like what is the key insight there is that, like, man, being in a physical form—be it even on like a Zoom or a FaceTime, or you know, literally physical—is tough for people. Yeah, and having that wall is nice as like an icebreaker to eventually get you to meet in person, etcetera.

Shaan Puri

I like that. Let me connect that to the last idea. When I first started working in this kind of Twitch ecosystem, the live streaming ecosystem, I saw this one guy. His name's Manny; I think his handle's like "The One Manny" or something like that. Manny streams on Twitch, but he's a dog. He's not actually a dog; he's a guy, but his avatar is a dog. He's one of the few Twitch streamers whose little webcam area is not himself; it's a dog. He uses this obscure app, which I think might have been bought by now, but it was called **FaceRig** at the time. So, FaceRig was this obscure app that you had to have a Windows machine to use. You would go on Steam, download FaceRig, pay $20 for it, and then you get the dog. The dog would mimic your head movements and mouth movements while you were streaming. For him, he was like, "Oh yeah, this is way more comfortable for me than putting my own real face out there as the show." I saw that, and then I tried it. I was like, "Wow, that really does make me feel way less anxious about kind of performing if I just have this little goofy-looking dog as me instead of me." So, that's another example where it took a lot of extra work. You had to go find this app, download it, pay money, set it up on a PC, but once you've experienced the magic at the end of that, you're like, "Okay, magic is here." Now, can I make this way less friction? I've lived in the future; I saw what life was like, and now I'm going to bring that back to the present and make it accessible to more people. It sounds like these guys—who are guys and gals—who are building this app might have done that. They might have made it way simpler for somebody to have that same experience.

Greg Isenberg

Yeah, absolutely! It's simple, fast, and magical. What I like about it—and what I like about your story, actually—is that the dude was unique. He was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna do this. I don't care what people think. This is what I'm gonna do." He pushed the envelope and did something weird. It turns out that weird things are actually head-turners, right? And head-turners create word-of-mouth. Word-of-mouth creates an audience, buzz, and all these things. Take Snapchat, for example. It's obvious now that a message would disappear, a photo would disappear, a video would disappear. But at the time, that concept didn't exist. So, listeners, tap into that uniqueness about yourself and don't be afraid to do it. Who knows? You might be on the verge of creating something like Snapchat or something similar!

Shaan Puri

And people will doubt it. There's a reason my Snapchat handle is still "svptest" because I was like, "This app is going nowhere." I thought, "I don't have to worry about making a real handle here. I'll just do this test account because I just want to try this silly fad, and then this will be gone in a month." And of course... famous last words.

Greg Isenberg

yeah absolutely

Shaan Puri

Let me give you an idea that's sort of like that. Okay, so my friend Damien, he's the founder of a company called Doodil. Have you ever heard of this?

Greg Isenberg

I haven't

Shaan Puri

it's like a british based company doodil as in due diligence so basically they they surface private company information in a way that's I think the eu has different laws of what you need to disclose so he can provide like you know revenue information employee information so you can get a lot more information about companies there so he built this platform it's like a fintech guy doing fintech things it's a super valuable company I think it might be a $1,000,000,000 company and so anyways he did that and so the other day I see him on facebook and he posts like hey you know you know I you know I've left and I was thinking about my next thing so I come up with this new thing called battelle and I was like oh shit what's battelle is this like some neobank is this you know what is this new fintech product and he's like it's not fintech it's a remote sleep school for parents and basically he's like I met this woman and what she does is she teaches parents how to put their baby to sleep and you know so they get a good night's sleep and the parents aren't up all night feeding every 2 hours and whatnot and she doesn't use what's called the cry it out method which is the the normal way you do this but it's like really hard on the parents to to fight through and and let their kid cry it out she's like she doesn't use the cry it out method and she's you know she's like the dog whisperer it's amazing I watched her work her magic on 200 families and I thought okay I'm gonna help this woman scale her her you know magic to you know as many families as I can and so he created this remote sleep school it's basically cost a $1,000 but you're gonna teach your kid's gonna get a good sleeping program so it's like you know what's that worth to you and like I don't okay I don't know if you know this I had a kid 8 months ago so now I'm in that position and so I was like oh dude I'll beta test this now because you know I'm going on 3 hours of sleep right now and damn I would love if I could you know do this and so I think that there's these fringe sort of weird things where it's like would people really pay $1,000 for this woman to zoom call you and and teach you how to put your kid to sleep like you know but I think that that's one of these products that is just weird enough solves a real problem and like adds a lot of real value and is charging for something that normally this advice is just like a free mommy blog telling you hey try this and instead it's like no here's a super high end version of that but we're gonna guarantee the result in a in a better way than a average blog would do what do you think of that idea

Greg Isenberg

I think it's... I actually really like it. I'm a big believer in, you know, "come for the tool, stay for the network." But the way I look at it is, "come for the tool, stay for the vertical network," where the vertical here would be parents. Yes, the fact that he's capturing such a high... like you're just in your beginning stages, my friend. You're about to buy a whole lot of products and services for your child, and maybe even more children if you have them. So, here's the thing: if they help you with this problem, you're definitely going to be like, "Wow, that was amazing."

Shaan Puri

thank you so much them will be like 1,000 points you know

Greg Isenberg

Right, so that's what it is. It's like when you're looking at building something in a vertical, it's all about the trust quotient you can have with the vertical. I like that this particular task will give you a lot of cred [credibility] for this business. Yeah, man, I think that's the other thing... I could see it being like a $1,000,000 a year business, but I can also somehow see it being a $1,000,000,000 [billion dollar] business.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

business and so it's worth a shot

Shaan Puri

Yeah, and that, you know, the math I think works where he has both options. It's like, you know, 1,000 people paying you $1,000 a month or, sorry, $1,000,000 for the program. That's $1,000,000. Can you find 1,000 parents to do this? I'm very confident just through Facebook ads. So, I think you could bootstrap to $1,000,000 in revenue very quickly with sort of like 30-40% margins on that and just pocket that. I think it's a very low-tech, easy-to-start, bootstrappable business into the single-digit millions. Let's call it between $1,000,000 or what you said, which is like cool. If he thinks about this bigger, like how do I, now that I have trust with these parents and I've solved one problem for them—the problem they had during the first 7 months of their baby—how do I help them with their next phase and the next phase and the next phase? You know, it could go bigger from there. So, I like having those options on the table where it starts with sort of those humble beginnings. It might just be a great cash flow business or it goes for the sort of home run.

Greg Isenberg

yeah man tell them to keep going

Shaan Puri

I will... well, I don't think you need my encouragement to keep going. The best entrepreneurs don't need any advice or encouragement.

Greg Isenberg

it's true

Shaan Puri

I remember I invested in Lambda School. Afterwards, I was talking to my friend; we did it together. I was like, "Here are three reasons... here's what I want out of this investment." So, it's...

Greg Isenberg

like I

Shaan Puri

I don't know if this will make us money or not, but I want to learn about this idea of a trade school for education. I want to hang out with the founder monthly and help him solve problems. I think it'll be really interesting. Lastly, I hope we get a return on this. He replied, "Oh, all I care about is the return. I don't give a shit about the rest." But hey, to each their own. On my end, I was like, ironically, the return is going to be there. But for the first two, like Austin, doesn't need my help and doesn't ask for it. If I text him something, I'm actually just taking up his time. It reminds me of what an investor told me: the best companies don't need us. That's the reality of value-added services. The best companies rarely need your help, and the worst companies you can't save anyway. There are some in the middle where you can help influence their trajectory, but this idea of investors really helping out or encouraging entrepreneurs is sort of overblown as marketing.

Greg Isenberg

I totally agreed. I think actually last week, there's this founder... he just *crushes* it. Like, for years he's done 10% year-over-year growth—sorry, month-over-month growth. I responded to his investor update: "Keep it up!" And then he just responds right away. He's like, "As if I wasn't gonna keep it up!" He came back with, "Thanks, bro."

Shaan Puri

yeah yeah exactly like that's amazing

Greg Isenberg

I just took a picture of myself smiling and sent it back then

Shaan Puri

That's so good! That's great. Alright, we should wrap up. We kind of went over time, but is there anything else? Shall we do one last spin of the idea? Let's get one more, then we're out of here. We'll do it quick.

Greg Isenberg

Throw it notes... Boom! Okay, so this one is a quarantine-ish idea, but it could last beyond quarantine. It's an idea that I called "Chef's Table." I don't know if you saw Carbone, the restaurant in New York City. They are not doing just one meal per night, and then it sells out. So it's kind of like a drop.

Shaan Puri

yep

Greg Isenberg

This idea builds a lot of buzz and demand, and it sells out every night. It's a drop for a restaurant, but you have a livestream with the chef telling you about the meal. For example, if it comes with wine or how the meal was prepared, the chef explains, "This is how I did it." It's more of an experience.

Shaan Puri

and it's the livestream is after you order or it's before you order

Greg Isenberg

So everyone, the way it would work is you would order it. Everyone would get the meal at the same time. I don't care if you want to... yeah, 7:30, you're getting it. This is just an idea.

Shaan Puri

you know this is

Greg Isenberg

an idea not enough time to talk about how we would do

Shaan Puri

it but they all get the

Greg Isenberg

Roughly around this, you know, the same amount of time, and then the chef comes and he's like, "Listen, I picked these carrots myself in the Hudson Valley." Here he's explaining it, and I think like that's what I miss most about restaurants, I guess, is the stories behind them.

Shaan Puri

right

Greg Isenberg

And this is the experience behind it, which you don't really get if you're just frying up some eggs in the morning.

Shaan Puri

For sure! Okay, so here's a twist on this idea: you're a high-end restaurant, your business is gone right now, like you're a Michelin star restaurant. What are you doing? You can't do anything. So here's your pivot: you go live on Instagram before the drop. You go live before and you're showing the prep. You're in the chef's kitchen, they're talking about it, they're drinking wine, and you're seeing it being prepared. People, I think, like to see this. As the show *Chef's Table* has shown, people like to watch high-end food get made—real skilled, you know, that sort of thing—as long as you have a personality with it. Then, basically, by the end of 20 minutes, the meal is ready for the drop. The drop goes live and it uses the new Facebook Shop feature that came out yesterday. You push the button and it orders it, basically. This is like a $100 meal, and it's the stuff you don't find on Postmates or Grubhub or whatever, which are all kind of like the bottom of the barrel. So you come in at the very top end of those, and the delivery experience is going to be amazing. The packaging is going to be fantastic, and whatnot. But you're going to get what you just saw on the IG live. So you do these $100 or $150 drops for high-end stuff through the delivery network, but you can go live before to build up that anticipation—like QVC, but for high-end cooking.

Greg Isenberg

I I like it I think we we kinda merged the ideas that's why it's nice to have cofounders

Shaan Puri

Okay, great! I'll incorporate it, and we'll get this off the ground. Sweet! Alright, Greg, where should people find you if they like your style and want to hear more from you?

Greg Isenberg

If you want to hear more from me, check me out on Twitter. My name's @GregEisenberg (G-R-E-G, I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G). Check and just holler!

Shaan Puri

Cool, we'll put it in the show notes too. Alright, Greg, I gotta run, but this has been great. Good catching up!

Greg Isenberg

yeah you too take care

Shaan Puri

alright man see you bye