10 Lessons We Learned From Filming 131 Episodes of My First Million In 2023
Nine new philosophies from 131 episodes. - December 27, 2023 (over 1 year ago) • 58:08
Transcript:
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Shaan Puri | If you want to stay being a broke idiot, don't listen to this video. Then he'll be like, "Here's the first lesson for you. Do this." And I know what you're gonna say, "Blah blah blah." Well, here's what I say about that. Then he'll flash his fancy stuff.
So, Sam texted me this morning and he goes, "We did over 100,000,000 views this year for the podcast." I thought he was wrong. I was like, "No way! You gotta go double-check that." He was right; we did. That is way more than I thought we did. That is a bonkers number!
I remember when we started this podcast, that sounded completely crazy. What we wanted to do today, since it's the end of the year, is look back and find what the key takeaways and lessons were from the 100,000,000 views we had this year on the podcast. So, what were the biggest things that stood out? When we look at the whole year, what were the biggest takeaways that we had? Sam, where do you want to start?
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Sam Parr | Yeah, let me... let's just get the lead out of the way. Let's start with the numbers.
So, I'm going to be transparent about a bunch of numbers, but not all—just a few. Alright, so in the last 11... we have 10 days left in the new year. We're not actually at 100,000,000; I think technically we're at 95,000,000. But I think in the past few months, it's been like 5,000,000 a week.
So, on YouTube, we got 80,000,000 downloads or 80,000,000 views so far. That includes YouTube Shorts, which pop off sometimes and we'll get millions of views. I don't put too much emphasis on that, but YouTube was around 80,000,000.
Then, downloads for the podcast—the actual podcast. We call everything the podcast, but there's basically the RSS feed; that's Spotify, iTunes, whatever you listen to your podcasts on. That was around 15,000,000.
So collectively, we're at about 95,000,000. We did 131 episodes, which is a ton, by the way. Like, this job... it's fun, but that's a lot of work. Do you agree? Or do you still think that every episode is fun?
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Shaan Puri | Every episode is fun for me, and I feel like I'm able to improvise well. It is a lot of work, but there are some days when some of our best episodes come from ideas we have just 90 minutes before we record. Someone sends a text saying, "Actually, what if we tried this?" and those turn out really well.
Sometimes, I think it's because what we've tried to do is make this podcast the byproduct of the other work we do. The basic business model is to do interesting business activities—invest in businesses, create businesses, and talk to interesting people. Then, the podcast is just about distilling the most interesting 10% that you're allowed to talk about and going to discuss it.
So, if we do that right, the podcast is pretty easy. When we don't do that right, then the podcast gets pretty hard. | |
Sam Parr |
But it's kind of like exercising. Some days I don't want to do it, and then almost every single time, even if it's a bad episode or something I didn't love, I feel happy and I'm proud that I did it. So for me, it's like exercise.
Alright, and I'll give you a few more stats. Do you want me to go through the most popular... the top three most popular episodes?
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Shaan Puri | yeah what are they | |
Sam Parr | Alright, so we actually have two categories. This is weird because the most popular episodes on YouTube are not the most popular episodes on the podcast.
So, again, using the RSS feed, the three most popular episodes on Megaphone—that's what we use to track this—are as follows:
1. **The Greatest Businesses of All Time: Psyops as a Service - Work Harder, Not Smarter** (that was the title).
2. **Brainstorming ChatGPT Business Ideas with Billionaire Dharmesh Shah**.
3. Shockingly, I didn't think this was going to be one of the top ones, but it was: **Nick Huber - How to Make Millions from Content Without Selling Ads**.
Those were the top three most popular on the podcast.
Now, the top three most popular on YouTube were actually the same. The most popular was **Brainstorming ChatGPT Business Ideas with Billionaire Dharmesh Shah**, which has 450,000 views. I don't know this for sure, but I think Dharmesh did something to manipulate this. I wouldn't be surprised if he emailed this out to his audience or bought ads, or did something because Dharmesh loves to win and be number one.
So, he's number one on YouTube. The second most popular one on YouTube is **10 Years of Money Wisdom in Under 20 Minutes**, which has 425,000 views. That is you by yourself, and I think you made that episode with YouTube in mind, is that right?
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Shaan Puri | yeah made that as a youtube first | |
Sam Parr | And it worked. The third one was very recent; it was November 2nd when I bought a multimillion-dollar egg carton business for $0.
It has 391,000 views on YouTube, featuring Sarah Moore and Sean.
Then, I'll just say the fourth one was Martin Shkreli when we interviewed him, which had 257,000 views.
Some of those were a bit surprising. What do you think about that?
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Shaan Puri |
Those make sense to me. I mean, each of those is basically... when I read the title, I'm like, "Yeah, I'd click that." And that's basically what works on YouTube: "I'd click that." Then you gotta deliver on the promise.
So, you know, maybe this whole content thing is a lot simpler. You just gotta get the titles right, and then you work backwards from there. Make the content off the title.
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Sam Parr | Well, and this is for any content creator out there. You and I, this show, we are kind of the bastard children of content creators. We started without YouTube; we only went for podcast downloads on podcast apps. I think we had a YouTube channel, but it was really like you and I went to Best Buy, bought a camera, and just set it there. We just uploaded it, and we didn't really care about it. I think we only started caring about it a year ago.
What's crazy is, if you really want to do it the right way—or maybe not, but the really right way—is you start with one platform in mind and you go all in on that. We didn't go all in on YouTube. I don't think we should have, but I understand the argument that we should have. What works on YouTube doesn't always work on an RSS feed and vice versa.
Speaking of YouTube, by the way, do you want to hear a few more stats? So, we did 131 episodes and added about 250,000 subscribers. Oh, sorry, 210,000 subscribers. We started the year at 150,000 and ended with 360,000. And do you want to know the biggest needle mover, besides actually caring about YouTube? Do you want to know what it was that got us subscribers?
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Shaan Puri | I'm gonna guess it's the gentleman agreement is that not it | |
Sam Parr | The gentleman's agreement. So, for all the listeners out there, here's another takeaway: when you hear a YouTuber say, "Click the subscribe button," and you hear everyone say that, you might think it doesn't matter.
We saw a distinct increase in the chart when we asked people to subscribe, and it went up. So, it absolutely works.
It's sort of like the thing, you know how people say, "Why are you buying ads on Facebook? Nobody uses Facebook. No one clicks ads." Nonsense! That is absolutely not true. | |
Shaan Puri | I can't find this client info | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, and actually, that was one of my takeaways for the year. When we were like, "Alright, we start growing on YouTube. What do we not like about it? What's stopping us from wanting to do that?" One of the things is, dude, I don't want to be that guy who's like, "Alright guys, if you like this video, click the like button, smash the subscribe button, and turn on notifications as well." It's like, oh god, I gotta turn into, you know, like an inflatable arm YouTube guy, you know, like in front of the car dealerships. It's like that inflatable arm balloon thing. I was like, oh god, I don't want to do this.
But you had a really great idea with this concept of the "gentleman's agreement." So basically, how do you do the cringe thing in a non-cringe way? Right? How do you turn lemons into lemonade? You did it with the gentleman's agreement. I think we also did it recently with the "thrill of the shill," where it's like...
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Sam Parr | yeah | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, look, we want to have ads to promote our businesses. Cool, that's fine, and I think the audience gets that. But how do we not make this an experience that's annoying for us to do? Like, sit down and record these... like, "shitty" ad reads, and then on the audience side, they just want to hit the skip button.
It's like, what would be fun for us and actually fun for them to listen to? When we switched to the thrill of the show, I feel like that was a good idea. I think that's something that people should do more of. If you could pull it off right, you should basically set a standard of, "No, no, no, I'm gonna have my cake and eat it too."
I feel like we did that in two areas this year, and I think that's something worth remembering as we go into next year. Like, alright, what would also be, instead of something that's kind of lame or a bit of a drag or just kind of extra work, how do we make it awesome for us and the audience? Because it didn't take that much more effort to do that. It just took a little bit of, you know, charm.
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Sam Parr | No, and it wasn't hard at all. The problem was the gentleman's agreement that we would always tell people about it. It faded out; we forgot to... | |
Shaan Puri | say it yeah | |
Sam Parr | It got to a point where it was not novel, and we were like, "Oh shit, we have to come up with another one." I watch all these YouTube videos, and I just see one, and I write it down. I'm like, "Copying that, copying that."
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Shaan Puri | and I | |
Sam Parr | Just forgot to say it, so we screwed up by not being consistent. Do you want to go like tit for tat a little bit and just go through interesting things that you've learned throughout the year?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, yeah, alright. I'll go first with one. So, this podcast is **Steady Eddie**. This podcast is the tortoise, not the hare. It grows very steadily. You could put up this chart from Social Blade that shows our YouTube growth, and it's great in that, you know, we started the year under 150,000 subscribers and we're ending the year almost at 400,000.
But there's like no spikes. This thing is just a line that's creeping up. Like, you know, if my uncle goes for a hike, this is what it would look like. This is like what it would look like; it's a map. It's like this is his Strava right here.
So, I'm like, what is this? This is so different than everything else I do because I am much more of a "go for the home run, try to do something incredible," and then if it doesn't work, or even if it's like, you know, you find something that's good, I don't really follow through. This is like a leak in my game in a way, but I kind of took some pride in this.
Let me give you some examples. So, on Twitter, we all joined this group chat called the **100K Club**. We all had, I don't know, 10 to 20,000 Twitter followers, and we were all 5 or 6 friends who wanted to hit 100K. We independently had that goal, and we all did it. We all surpassed it, but we all did it very differently.
Nick Huber did it, and he's kind of polarizing. He'll say controversial stuff that he believes, but he'll spice it up a little bit. He knows what he's doing; he uses controversy to grow.
Sahil is like, "Every day I wake up, I open a fortune cookie, and then I type it out to whatever it was." I'll put that on Twitter. I'll do that every single day, and I'll do a thread every Tuesday and Thursday.
And why would I not? It works! We're like, "Why would it not?" Because it's so boring to do that. But he did it, and he grew the most out of all of us. I think he's like at a million, and he did it with what I'll call more cookie-cutter stuff.
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Sam Parr | yeah | |
Shaan Puri |
Feel good, you know? Kept it pretty safe. No controversy, no real... I would say, not much original storytelling or wisdom, but more like general best practices. Kind of, you know, stuff we've heard before but packaged well.
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Sam Parr | He's posted so many videos of children and just probably titled it "Humans Are Amazing." Yeah, but like, oh, I love it.
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Shaan Puri | My son... I'm never gonna write that shit, right? You know, I looked at my son and I was like, "Hey, listen, you're never getting that, alright? You're never getting that from me. I'm not using you for that, and you're not using me for that. Alright, we're not doing that."
But jokes aside, you know, Sahil was more about consistency. He was ready to hit base hits. He just base hit it his way to a million. I did the opposite. I didn't have a schedule. I didn't draft things. I didn't have a ghostwriter. I didn't do anything. I just had probably six tweets that went viral. One was like this Clubhouse thread, one was about the metaverse, one was about Elon Musk, one was about whatever. I just had a couple of these things go really, really viral.
I would go weeks... weeks without even tweeting, and then I would just do that. I got to maybe 350,000.
So here's the lesson learned: the joke's on me in the end. This is kind of the long takeaway. I was like, "Your boy's a home run hitter. I just go for the big swings. I don't have to do all that consistency BS. I just come in, drop a mic with a viral thread, and I peace out." I was so happy with myself.
Then I kind of looked up at the end of the year and I was like, "The people who did the consistency thing got way further and did way less. They didn't have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to do it." I felt like I was having to pull a rabbit out of a hat in order to get growth to happen. Because that's so hard, I could only do it so often.
With the podcast, because I do this with you, and you are a more structured, disciplined guy, you're like, "Let's set recording dates and let's never miss them." I'm like, "Dude, what if we did like ten episodes in the next two days? But then, you know, if I'm busy, let's not do an episode." I would have had a totally different schedule. I would have had such worse results.
When I look at this, it's like, "Damn, consistency wins again." This brings me to the...
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Sam Parr | It's 5. I think we're at 550 or 520, so we're like 500.
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Shaan Puri | 500 + episodes yeah | |
Sam Parr | 533 ari said so we're 500 + in it's a lot that's a lot | |
Shaan Puri | And we record like clockwork—same time, same days, every week. No excuses. I would have never done my homework.
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Sam Parr | we've had some excuses | |
Shaan Puri | well at least the we have reasons | |
Sam Parr | yeah yeah yeah sickness children and that's about it | |
Shaan Puri | So, alright, this takes me to one of the biggest lessons I learned through the podcast. We met Andrew Wilkinson; people know about him, but I also met his business partner, Chris.
Chris said something at a dinner that I've shared on the podcast. It was the question of the year. He goes, "Do you know..." Somebody was talking about something they did, they failed, and they were like, "Oh, but I'll..." Then somebody else, to kind of pat them on the back, was like, "Wow, but you know, you learned so much." And they're like, "Oh my god, I learned so much! So many lessons learned!"
Chris goes, "Like what?" You would think for somebody who went through this traumatic experience and had so many lessons learned, they would be like, "Number 1, this; number 2, this; number 3, this." But those lessons weren't at the tip of their tongue. In fact, the lessons weren't even in their head. They learned actually nothing.
Chris correctly called it out, and I had never heard anybody question this assumption that when somebody says, "I failed, what I learned," he was like, "You know, I don't think people really learn." He goes, "In fact, some people, when I ask them what they learned, they say something that tells me they learned the wrong lesson."
I think that's what happened to me this year on the consistency versus big home run virality thing. I think I learned the wrong lesson. I was cursed by the fact that I did go viral a few times, and I did pass my kind of 100k goal.
Actually, the lesson was, "Dude, if I just had consistently tweeted every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, probably would have taken me 30 minutes. I'd probably be at a million followers instead."
So, I think I learned the wrong lesson. I think that Chris' question of, "Did you even learn the right lesson from this experience?" showed up everywhere for me this year. Everybody I talked to, I realized more people fell into that camp. The outlier was somebody who went through something and had the right takeaway from it. The outlier was that.
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Sam Parr | Well, I would say to you—and this isn't a leading question, but it is for me when I ask myself this—**is being popular on social media even worth it?**
I talked to a lot of people who are significantly more successful than I am in terms of traditional success. They've built bigger companies, whatever. And they'll ask about getting popular on social media. My immediate response is, "But why? You're doing awesome, and you could be private. That sounds way better."
So, I would wonder, is it even worth it to have a million followers? For you, in your case, actually, the answer is probably yes. But that's something that I always ask people when they talk to me about social media.
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Shaan Puri | I think for a lot of people, the answer is no. It's almost the cliché example of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." It's like if you play the "I want to be popular on social media" game, you win the wonderful prize of having a bunch of followers who, you know, don't really know or care about you. You basically turn your life into a performance for them, right? So, you sort of win the stupid prize in the end.
For me, after a bunch of soul searching, it became very obvious that the thing I actually wanted to do—the thing that would bring me the most joy in my life—is to be kind of like one of these "thinker" guys. It's like I think, you know, I don't actually want to be Elon Musk; I want to be Tim Ferriss.
Once I realized that, and it sounded very true for me, I was like, "Okay, then I gotta do that. I gotta go learn cool stuff. I gotta synthesize information from a bunch of places." And then, yeah, which is super fun for me. I'm going to try to teach it. I like teaching it, and I'll try to share it. I like sharing it—why not? I'm so excited about the stuff that I'm figuring out.
I'd like to create content, and I'm good at creating content, so it's a good fit for me. For me, it is probably the right game. I wouldn't say being popular on social media is the right way to phrase it. I think it is about getting to be a thinker and making that your actual job.
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Sam Parr | sure sure | |
Shaan Puri | but you're right | |
Sam Parr | Me calling it popular on social media is like calling it a creator. It's like, "Oh, that's cute." That's not how I meant it, but that sounds... sounds like, "Alright."
The biggest thing I learned this year, and I have a bunch of them, but number one, the biggest thing... So I'll set the stage here. Last spring, do you remember what month it is? We were like, "Alright." I had... I was at the two. So basically, when I sold the company to HubSpot, I had like a two-year deal where my stock had to vest, whatever. That ended in February, and then we had to renegotiate some stuff, some contracts. I think we started that... When did we start that? Do you remember which month?
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Shaan Puri | end of april | |
Sam Parr | It didn't end until September, is that right? Did it end in September?
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Shaan Puri | something like that it's august september | |
Sam Parr | So, we go to negotiate this, and I'm a pretty soft guy. I have known all along that I'm bad at negotiating. | |
Shaan Puri | I you look a fair richet hard on the outside soft on the inside | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, like I just... I'm not good with uncomfortable conversations. I don't love confrontation. I want people to think that I'm easy to deal with, but I leave a lot on the table. I leave a ton on the table.
When we went to negotiate this contract, Sean, you were like, "Let me take the lead on this." You did so many things that I thought were the stupidest things ever. I was like, "You're being rude. This is stupid. You're asking for too much. You're being difficult. You're in the weeds too much. Why do you care about this?"
It ended up being like a 5-page or 8-page contract, and you're like, "This one sentence, guys, we need to talk about it. We need to change this word from, you know, 'mandatory' to 'optional'."
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Shaan Puri | or I | |
Sam Parr | Don't even remember. Yeah, like, you were like... and I think we probably had 10 revisions. We had to hire a lawyer to go through all this stuff, and we sweated the details so much. In my heart, I was like, "Everything about this is wrong."
And you want to know something? I was wrong. You were right. You negotiated this wonderfully, and I learned so many things. I could summarize this in something that you had said. I think you said someone told you, "The person who could be most uncomfortable in a negotiation will oftentimes win."
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I think that's it. So, the way you said it isn't actually the way I would say it. You said, "Whoever's more uncomfortable will win," but it's actually like the first thing in negotiations: realize it's not about winning. Both sides usually want different things. You have to make sure both sides get what they want so that both sides feel like they win.
But it is true that you have to be willing to be uncomfortable for much longer than you're comfortable being uncomfortable. Right? That was what I was trying to say. Because, you know, it's very easy in the moment to say, "If I push this button, the pain stops, and the uncertainty goes away, and the item goes off my to-do list." It's very tempting to want to push that button.
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Sam Parr | Well, like, I'm not particularly good at that. So, at the hustle, we did enterprise sales basically, so we were dealing with $100,000+ advertising deals. I wasn't particularly good at that, but one thing I learned early on was that for any salesperson, it's best to not be hard-hitting, like, "I'm gonna sell you this." Instead, you say, "Alright, so what are you guys looking for? What are you trying to get out of this? Do you need more customers?"
You basically ask them what they want, and then you tailor a solution or position your solution to fit their needs. You did a really good job of that. It was like, "Alright, HubSpot, tell me everything you guys want, and we'll try to accommodate." Or, "I'll phrase my solution to fit your needs." You did a really good job at that.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, so let me do a simple one this year. My...
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Sam Parr | cash flow | |
Shaan Puri | So, my monthly income I think went up by like 4.5 times. However, I was very focused on making money, and I didn't... I normally don't care about expenses.
You know that phrase, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep"? That's true. I just don't really follow it very well.
And the biggest expense sounds good always.
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Sam Parr | sounds smart | |
Shaan Puri | the biggest expense always is taxes and I didn't do a lot of tax planning so this is a very simple one one of my big takeaways for the year is lesson learned again that taxes are your biggest expense once you start making real money and I looked into a bunch of different opportunities and at the only at the end of the year did I do something smart which was I know somebody very well who is phenomenal at real estate they have a very niche application of real estate they crush it like I'm talking about went from 0 to owning a $1,000,000,000 in real estate with no outside capital in like you know 8 years type of thing and I watched them do that brick by brick I know this this method this like specific thing that they do where they have a bit of an unfair advantage where why it works and I never really asked them to participate in a deal I was like you know they don't take any external money so why not but I know that we have a good really good relationship so I was like maybe they would take it so finally towards the end of the year I was like hey can I like deploy some capital here because if I can invest with you I think I'll get a great return but also I'll get that sweet sweet depreciation and so I will get a you know sort of a double return on my side because I get the you know returns for the property but I also get the tax savings today and I just started doing it and it is so good it is so smart and I'm I am so regretful that I didn't take this more seriously earlier and jess ma came on the podcast and she said it was her that triggered me to go take action on this she goes I go do you spend a bunch she goes oh I wanna talk about what risk people will do to their taxes and we didn't even really get to that in the episode but during the pre call I was like what do you mean by we should talk about it like and she's like well I think just the general thing is that most entrepreneurs really don't spend enough time on on their taxes and I get it they wanna build their business but she's like if you just look mathematically like this is gonna be you know between I don't know 30 to 50% of all your income every year gets taxed this way and 20 +% of your gains of all your investment gains gonna get taxed this way she's like it's financially irresponsible to not at least spend 5 to 10% of your time on this and then I did the math and I was like 10% of my time would be 5 full weeks of a year I was like there's no way I'm gonna do that but I was like I should at least spend like 2 1 you know like something where I'm actually focused on getting my time | |
Sam Parr | like a did you like a tax strategist | |
Shaan Puri | I talked to a few people, but the reality is, it's not that hard. Real estate really is the best way to do this.
What you do is take your income, and you have taxable income coming from one place. You take that cash and deploy it into real estate. My wife is a real estate professional, so we can offset the active income.
You put the cash there, and now that cash is going to grow in the property. But you also have all this tax loss to wipe out your taxable income, if that makes sense.
So, you get cash on both sides, but the taxable income gets reduced by using real estate. It doesn't really take... like I don't need...
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Sam Parr | Anything to do with it, by the way, is hard. It's hard to find deals that are good. I mean, like I've...
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Shaan Puri | I bought deals. I knew this for a long time. I was like, "Great, what am I gonna do? Go look for fourplexes in Missouri?" I don't have the time, energy, or expertise to do this.
Then you have a bunch of different fund manager-type people, and you're like, "Alright, I gotta vet them and figure out if they're any good." I could do a couple of deals with them. In this case, I was lucky that I had a very long-term relationship with somebody I had seen do this with their own money. They're not a money manager, and they get far above-average returns because of what they do.
So, anyway, that became the thing I'm gonna do. We should talk more later. You should do this too. I'm so convinced that this is a good idea for people in our position. I think most of our friends in our circle, we're all internet money people, and we kind of suck at the real-world money stuff.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I suck at it. Alright, I've got another one. I've titled this "Loose Cannon, Loose Results."
For the majority of my career, I've been a loose cannon. I would say silly stuff, and it would get a reaction. I would get results... sometimes. I gotta put that asterisk: sometimes.
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Shaan Puri | the results make a laugh | |
Sam Parr | Or, like, I was in the media business. We are still in the media business, which is like... I could go the obnoxious, blunt, or ridiculous route, and I can get clicks. The problem with that is, as you get more popular, you have to decide: Are you going to go all in on that, or are you not going to go all in on it? Or do you want to be in this middle ground?
The middle ground is bad.
So here's an example of someone who goes all in on it: Dave Portnoy. The guy's a missionary. But here's what that means. He says ridiculous stuff. He had a sex scandal this year. Regardless of what the facts are, I'm not even debating what the facts of his issues were. He was accused of being... I think it might have been something crazy, like assault—some really bad stuff.
He went all in on it. He confronted it head-on. But then there are other things that he's done where he's like, "Look, I'm so rich I can do all this stuff."
But there's a downside to that. The upside is he gets lots of traffic. Whenever he goes through any type of scandal, he gets lots of views, and somehow, I imagine he gets paid through those ads.
The downside is obvious: You are now this guy where you've got to live this life as a loose cannon. You say whatever you want, and you're a huge target.
Then we've gotten really close with Andrew Wilkinson, who is not a loose cannon. He says some stuff bluntly, but he's a very honest guy, though he's a bit reserved.
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Shaan Puri | more measured yeah | |
Sam Parr | He's more measured. We had Syed on the... what's Syed's last name?
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Shaan Puri | syed balki | |
Sam Parr | Balki, he's one of the best guests we've had. Very measured. The guy's only 32 or something, and he's in the ballpark of being a billionaire. He owns all these companies. Off air, when I've hung out with him, he's a little bit less measured, but on air, he was definitely very, like, "I look, my reputation matters. I need to have a good reputation," and he cared about that stuff.
We also had Kevin Ryan. Kevin Ryan is probably the second or third most successful guy we've had on the podcast. Very measured, very honest, but very straightforward, yet also calculating.
Sarah Moore was another person. Sarah Moore explicitly said, "I don't want to be famous. I'm only going to be here," and she still shared good stories. But I'm sure that her reputation was in mind, things like that.
I think that I'm not willing to go the Dave Portnoy route for sure. I don't want that flack. I've said very mild things, and I'll get flack for it. I'm like, "Yeah, I just don't want to live this life where I go hardcore."
So anyway, a takeaway is I've actually wanted to pull back some public persona stuff. I don't want to reveal certain numbers. I don't want to be a target. I don't want to have to fight these battles. I don't get joy from that. I used to get joy from that, and I would respond to haters constantly online just to prove, like, "See, you can't talk shit to me. I'm a real guy. I read all the comments." That's stupid. I don't want to be that person.
That's a pretty big takeaway. You've done a good job of, like, you’ve actually had a few fires this year where you said some stuff that you got called out on, and you didn't back down from it, but you also didn't engage in it.
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Shaan Puri | I don't even remember | |
Sam Parr | I'm sure it was... what it is. There was a time when you criticized someone who worked for you, and it caused a little bit of a spat on the internet.
Yeah, and I don't remember another time, but I think that’s what I’m referring to. In my head, when I'm hearing you say that, or when I'm seeing that, I'm like, "I want to stay out of this. I don't want any of this drama. I don't want this stress."
You know, we've seen it with Chamath a bit, where he put himself out there and he's done some contradictory things. He's taken a lot of flack, and I respect that he's owned up to it and he faces it head-on.
I don't want to live that life. I thought I did, but I don't. As we've gotten more popular, I for sure do not want to live that life, and I prefer to be more private now than I was in the past.
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Shaan Puri | That's a good one. I have kind of a related one.
One of the best meetings I had this year was with James Courier. James Courier, for those who don't know, is the founder of something called NFX, which stands for Network Effects. They basically have about $1,000,000,000 in assets under management. They invest in tech startups. He's a Silicon Valley OG, so he's been building successful tech companies for like, you know, 20 years or something like that.
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Sam Parr | he's had I I think multiple $100,000,000 + exits | |
Shaan Puri | Correct, and super fun guy! So, I go to his office. I drive down to Palo Alto. I don't usually leave the house, but for James, I'm there.
Literally, it's just me and him in the office. I was like, "Where's everybody else?" He's like, "Yeah, we don't really even have that many people, but also, yeah, nobody's coming to work anymore. Everyone works from home."
So, it's just me and him in his office for a couple of hours. He shared with me a piece of advice that really stuck with me, and I started seeing everything differently.
He goes, "Can I give you some unsolicited advice?" I was like, "Please." He goes, "You know, today..." He drew this line on the whiteboard. He said, "I really like what you guys are doing with your show, but I don't know where you go from here."
He's like, "You're kind of in the middle." He means, if I think about really upmarket, he's like, "When we make content, we're not making content that we don't want a million views. If we did a million views on a piece of content, we probably made the wrong piece of content."
He goes, "Because what I'm doing at NFX, I'm trying to invest in whatever is the next Airbnb, the next Twitter, the next whatever. So, I need the most ambitious founders in the world who are building venture-backed tech companies to read our stuff, really care about it, and think, 'When I'm going to raise money, I'm going to go to NFX.'"
He's like, "So, you have us, and a16z, and others that are trying to be really upmarket because we're trying to attract a certain quality founder, of which there's only a smaller pool. But they also care about different things. They're only going to... you know, they don't want to hear about the vending machine side hustle.
We'll be like, 'Oh dude, this guy's got 18 vending machines, he's making $22K a month, isn't that sick?' And like, he doesn't care about that. They're trying to get only people who are going to disrupt the healthcare system or some shit like that. I don't know, it's such a big idea, who even knows what it means?"
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Sam Parr | By the way, I would disagree with him. I think that they care enough to listen, but not enough to actually do anything about it. You know what I mean?
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Shaan Puri | Oh yeah, and the vending machine thing. Actually, you're right. I meet a lot of these people, and they're pretty fascinated by the economics of stuff that's outside of their world because they're...
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Sam Parr | just a bunch | |
Shaan Puri | of business nerds | |
Sam Parr | I think they actually care enough to be entertained by it but right that's but that's about it | |
Shaan Puri | But, like, then you have on the other end of the spectrum, you have, you know, let's say... I love Gary V, but you know, Gary V is basically like motivation and grind.
Like, "Hey, you gotta..." His content will be literally, "I'm gonna pull up to this garage sale and I'm gonna flip this VHS for, you know, on eBay. Imagine if I do that every day. That could be your hustle."
And it's like, so I could make, you know, $100 a year. It's like, kind of a job can do that. But this is, I guess, the entry level of entrepreneurship. And it's like, he has a huge audience.
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Sam Parr | which I respect by the way but if you still wanna do it | |
Shaan Puri | Gary, you know, what's the deal with the best investments Gary's made? I think they came from his peers, like his friends he hung out with, not necessarily from his listeners or fans.
He probably... I shouldn't speak for him, but I guess it's very easy, if you're in that position, to think, "It's great because I get huge numbers," but it's not necessarily a two-way thing. I'm not learning back from my audience as much. Maybe I'm happy to sign autographs and take selfies, but I'm not excited to go have dinner with five people in this group because I don't feel like "iron's sharpening iron" there.
I'm a black belt; I'm more hanging out with white belts. So, when I'm trying to spar, I want to spar with black belts.
Anyways, he said, "You have a decision to make. You're in the middle right now with 'My First Million.' You kind of have a foot in both camps." He said, "It's going to be very tempting for you to go down market. Don't do it. If anything, go up market."
He said, "In the long run, you're going to want to be more interested in the topics that those people are interested in. You won't want to keep saying the same beginner-level content, like, 'Here's how you make your first million,' 'Here's how you should quit your job,' 'Here's how you get a startup idea,' and 'Here's how you incorporate an LLC.' You're not going to want to make that content as you grow."
He said, "You should steer up market. My only advice to you is that I think that was so smart." I don't even know why he said that to me because I wasn't even thinking about it.
But now, let me give you an example. Alex Hormozi, I think, is absolutely killing the content game. I think Alex is awesome; he's super talented. But I think he's making a mistake by going very down market.
I'm just going to read you some titles of his last videos he's posted in the last two months: "How to Make So Much Money It Makes You Sick."
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Sam Parr | how to get rich this black friday | |
Shaan Puri | Watch this if you're tired of being broke. The real reason your business isn't growing is a bunch of these [down market video concepts].
I don't want to pick on these, but they'll definitely get views. The comments will show people saying, "Oh my god, you changed my life! You're my hero!" and so on. It's not that he's not doing a service for those people. However, I look at that and think, for me, the game I want to play is definitely not to go down market.
I want to resist the temptation to create that kind of content and focus on creating upmarket content. This will have a lower view count number, but it will have a higher value per viewer.
It's like I'm creating a magnet. I'm not just creating an audience; I'm creating a magnet with my content, and I want to attract the right people.
So, anyway, that was a big lesson or takeaway for me that I wouldn't have otherwise thought about.
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Sam Parr |
Yeah, I think so. Like sometimes some of the contractors who work on this podcast will suggest ideas because they're just looking at YouTube analytics, and I'm like, "No." I... eight out of the ten things, I don't think would work.
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Shaan Puri |
If Apple sold iPhones for $5, they'd sell more units too, right? Like, if you... but if you're building an upmarket brand, or if you're Louis Vuitton, you don't want to go downmarket. There's another guy we met...
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Sam Parr | And we fall victim to it as well. I don't want to act like our shit doesn't stink, but even though you and I will fight it, sometimes we will.
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Shaan Puri |
Correct. The only reason this lesson resonates is because it's something I'm wrestling with right now. If I have a solved problem, I don't really care about it. It doesn't stand out as a big takeaway because I didn't have the problem in the first place. This is a problem I have, so I'm trying to figure out where to go, and this advice was very helpful.
There's another guy who does this... Have you seen this guy on Instagram? The "Genius CEO"?
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I think he came personally. He's in Austin right now. I think he's so funny. I think he's so funny. | |
Shaan Puri | funny so like I find him hilarious and like when I met him | |
Sam Parr | I can't tell if his Instagram is a joke. There are a lot of nuggets in there, but he'll be like, "Bad Bunny is only making $30,000,000 a year? What a bitch move! We're gonna teach this guy how to make $1,000,000,000." He'll insult these people, and it's pretty funny.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, he'll be like, "This product is gonna bust faster than a bunch of you chumps out there." So let me tell you how I would do it. I was like, "Whoa, yeah, what a hook!"
So we met this guy in real life. In real life, he's a total sweetheart and a very smart guy, right? Super nice dude, humble, whatever. And then I'm like, "What do you have this ridiculous mustache? Your fingernails are painted, you've got this crazy chain, and a Gucci purse?" But like...
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Sam Parr | well he looks like a celebrity he's like a tall good looking guy right | |
Shaan Puri |
But he's an IG... like a male IG thot. But in person, you're a totally respectable, humble, nice guy dad. And he was like, "Oh yeah, I created this character." He's like, "I realized what hits on IG is gonna be like fancy cars, fancy shit, six-pack abs, hot girls." And so he's like, "You know, I just do that. It's my character and I built a following." So he's got 200,000 followers on there. His content is hilarious.
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Sam Parr | it's so funny | |
Shaan Puri |
He's selling, you know, FBA [Fulfillment by Amazon]. Basically like, "I made my millions selling drop shipping. I was doing FBA brands. If you want to stay being a broke idiot, don't listen to this video."
And then he'll be like, "Here's the first lesson for you. Do this. And I know what you're gonna say... blah blah blah. Here's what I say about that."
Then he'll flash his fancy stuff. He's like, "This is a video of me buying this Van Cleef & Arpels necklace."
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Sam Parr | it's so funny I love it | |
Shaan Puri |
And I'm like, "Wow, what is happening with this guy?" But I think he's also going to be trapped in the down market thing, right? He's selling a mastermind you gotta pay to get into. He's gonna make $1,000,000 doing this, but I don't think he's got any... you know, I don't think he's got any way out. That is... he's cornered himself in that way.
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Sam Parr | Sure, sure. Yeah, he's a good follow. He's very funny.
Alright, let me give you another one. The biggest takeaway that I want people to have from this podcast, which we've done now for 3 or 4 years, is... at first, I would go get a haircut and they'd be like, "So, what do you do for work?" and I would say, "Oh, I do this, I do that. I work on this podcast." Then they'd ask, "What's the podcast about?" and I'd say, "Well, it's called *My First Million*, but the title isn't entirely accurate."
I'll explain what it's about. What I tell people is that, look, we've had multi-multibillionaires on this show. We've had employees at companies on the show. I think what we care about is people who create a path. They do it not necessarily because they are billionaires; I don't necessarily think just because you are a billionaire, you are particularly better than anyone else. What I care about is someone who says, "I'm gonna be great at this weird type of art."
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Shaan Puri | Intentionally choose a game. So, they choose a game with intention and then they play the shit out of that game, right? That is the description because that's what it is for me.
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Sam Parr |
That's exactly it. And so, for example, the guy I talk about all the time, Brett Adcock, he's not like me. He's like, "Well, I'm gonna raise a billion dollars and try to create a $500 billion company." I'm inspired by that, but I will never... I don't want to do that.
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Shaan Puri |
Or even this example we just gave: the genius CEO. He chose to play that game, and he's playing the *shit* out of it. I respect that. I don't want to do that, but I kind of admire people who intentionally choose their game and then play the shit out of it.
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Sam Parr | I admire the hell out of it. We've had John Coogan on the show. John Coogan started Soylent, which scaled to be a fairly large business. He's got another company, and now he's a full-time content creator. He has a YouTube channel, and it's beautifully done. He's doing it wonderfully.
Then we've had Rob Dietrich on, and we've had Laird Hamilton on—guys who aren't the Silicon Valley type of lifestyle, but they kill it in whatever they do. I admire all of them equally.
The takeaway that I've had is that there are a million ways to get to where you want to go. For a lot of these people, it's about money, but there are still a million ways to get there.
For example, when I moved to San Francisco, I thought you had to raise venture capital, you had to do this, you had to do that. But then we meet Syed, who brings all this stuff. I imagine he's worth $500 million to $1 billion. He started a WordPress blog, which sounds crazy or stupid if you don't know what you're talking about—like I didn't.
Turns out that killed it. Then he bought tons of gas stations. Now he owns 50 different WordPress plugins that collectively do over $100 million in revenue. He's a young guy in Florida—not even a cool part of Florida. He's not in Miami; I think he's in Tallahassee or somewhere in Florida.
Yeah, no disrespect to Tallahassee. I see you, Ari, but like, I'm just saying... | |
Shaan Puri | there's just there's just people who just listen to this pod just like oh man their hometown where they grew up | |
Sam Parr | Is just gets Lauderdale. I don't care. I'm from Saint Louis. Alright, I could say these things. I'm not from a cool place. It's all the Baltimores out there, you know? Like, I feel bad for you.
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Shaan Puri | to the tiers tier c cities out there | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, it's objectively not the place to be. But what I'm saying is I appreciate the hell out of people like that and learning about all of these different ways.
My biggest takeaway from this year and doing the podcast is that there are a lot of different ways to do it. You just have to choose where you want to go and what rules you're willing to play by. There's not just one way to do it.
In fact, if I had to say, I would say the one that's likely to get there is starting a small services business and just growing it over 50 years. Pay yourself a good salary after year 10 and do that for decades.
This is not at all what I would have expected. A normal small business owner that does it for a long time is significantly more likely to have a higher income and die rich than any other way.
But there are a lot of different ways to do it, and that's one of the things I appreciate about doing this podcast.
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Shaan Puri | That's a great one, and I do think that if you zoom out, that is kind of the essence of the podcast. The podcast isn't saying, "Do X or do Y." It's more like, "Check this out. You can do X; here's how that works. You can do Y; here's how that works. You can do Z; here's how that works."
By the end of it, you're either going to be in one of two positions. Some people hear all that and get overwhelmed. They don't know where to go; there are too many paths, too many possibilities. It sort of paralyzes them.
But I hope that's not most people. I think for most people, that reaction is kind of like, "Wow, winning and being successful is this thing that feels scarce if you're not around it." Right? Like where I grew up, I didn't know any business people. Nobody in my family was a business person. None of my cousins, none of my aunts, none of my uncles—none of them did businesses. | |
Sam Parr | you were raised in tallahassee | |
Shaan Puri | born in oklahoma and the and so you know I wasn't around it | |
Sam Parr | ari just flicked me off her makeup out of tallahassee by the way | |
Shaan Puri | And so, you know, I wasn't around it. It seemed like this faraway thing that I didn't really even understand. There was no map, and I thought maybe there's one path, but I don't know it, and I'm not invited to that party.
My hope is that if you listen to this podcast, you're going to hear over the course of a year a hundred different examples of ways to win and how they work. At that point, it's just a matter of choosing, and all of a sudden, winning and success become this thing that, instead of being scarce and difficult, is abundant. It's everywhere and it's right at your fingertips if you just start doing whatever sounds most intriguing to you.
Then you just keep playing the game, and it will work out for you. That's, I think, what the podcast ultimately does for people.
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Sam Parr | good I hope it does I have one more do you have one more | |
Shaan Puri | you go | |
Sam Parr | Alright, my last one. So, we had Scott Galloway on. Scott Galloway is a guy who said on the podcast, "I'm worth over $100,000,000," and he also mentioned in that same sentence, "I'm deeply afraid of running out of money."
We had Morgan Housel on most recently, and he said something like he knows that you shouldn't necessarily set goals for money. He knows, objectively, that he's got enough that he likely won't ever run out. He also knows that he shouldn't check his net worth. But then, we pressed him on it, and he was like, "But of course, if I'm lying in bed at night, just because I know what I'm supposed to do, I still wonder what it would be like to have more."
I don't think we've ever had anyone on the podcast—maybe Jack Smith, but Jack Smith is like a freak—who doesn't want more, regardless of what they have. It sounds like a really negative thing, like, "What you have is enough. Why do you need more? Why do you need to achieve this and that?" I think it should be the opposite.
The takeaway is that no matter what you have, you're always going to feel that there's another level, and that you should want to achieve it. I don't think that's a depressing takeaway. I think the takeaway should be that you will always want more accomplishments, more achievements, and that is okay. That is totally okay, and that is normal.
Just expect that wherever your goal is, once you achieve it, you're going to feel satisfied only for a short amount of time, and then you're going to want to achieve more. That's basically 95, or no, I would say 99% of the time, that's true, and that's okay. It's okay to want more.
I think there's a healthy way to go about it and an unhealthy way to go about it. I would say Scott probably has unhealthy ways, and I would say I have unhealthy ways too. I think you can change those unhealthy ways to healthy ways. But no matter what you have, you will accomplish it. Whatever your goal is, you'll get there. It'll take six months, and you'll say, "What's next? How do I do it again? How do I do more?" Just expect that that's going to happen. | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, I think when people hear that, it sounds wrong, sad, or bad, or something like that. But another way of looking at that same thing is the concept of **infinite** and **finite games**.
My understanding of it—though I haven't spent a ton of time on this—is quite simple. A **finite game** is one where you play for the result. You play in order to achieve an outcome, and you're hoping to get to that outcome; that's the purpose of it.
An **infinite game**, on the other hand, is one where you play for the sake of playing. You play because you want to play.
Now, if you look at that in practice, for example, basketball is something I consider an infinite game. I play because it's so fun to play, and I want to play. My goal is to win, but I wouldn't stop if I won. It's not because of greed; it's because winning is a way to make the game more interesting.
In a small burst, yes, of course, we're trying to win the fourth quarter. By the end of Q4, I want to have the higher score. But ultimately, it's like, "Alright, let's run it back. Let's play again. Let's play until our legs fall off." That's basically how it's always felt for me.
That's the closest thing I've felt to an infinite game until business came in, and it's actually very, very similar. I like having a scoreboard; it makes it more fun to play when you keep score. But I'm not trying to get to a result. I'm not doing work to get to a result and then stop working. I like playing. I plan to keep playing. I'm playing for the sake of playing, and the scoreboard makes playing a lot more interesting, fun, and intense. That should be the takeaway.
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Sam Parr |
The takeaway is that because I previously had the "if I get to this, I will not feel stressed and I won't work anymore" mindset, the reality is I still felt stress. I felt *less* stress though, there's no doubt about that. I felt a lot less stress.
Six months later, I was like, "But I have to go and do something." I feel like a piece of shit just sitting here, and I feel good contributing. And so...
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Shaan Puri | Why do you think you feel stressed? Even after the event, why do you still feel stressed? Because I think that...
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Sam Parr | I think that the stress I experience is related to some type of childhood trauma, and that just takes years to unwind.
Part of the stress comes from comparing myself to others. I want to achieve more, and I also want more things. What do they say? "Desire is hell" or "desire is pain," right?
So, wanting more stuff is something I try to combat by telling myself, "No, that won't make me happy." I struggle with comparing myself to others, wanting more things, and also trying to get rid of a chip on my shoulder.
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Shaan Puri | right I'll offer you a different answer that might be true for you I don't know if it is or not but I I think I I believe this is more true because I hear a lot of people talk about it and it's like childhood trauma it's like alright well nothing I could do about that that's literally the past it's written and it sounds like it's a it's a long unpacking process I don't wanna do that like I I still got suitcases over here I haven't unpacked from vacations I've been on like I just don't wanna I'm not trying to unpack years of childhood trauma similarly it's like oh I have to like stop the feeling of envy or desire oh my god which will never happen as an animal to do that that sounds like a game I'm never gonna win so I actually think there's a different answer which is emotion the emotions you feel are much like muscles it's basically you've had a lot of practice at stressing so what happens is people practice feeling a certain way and they don't think about it as practice but what does it mean when you do something all the time or regularly you are habituating yourself or practicing doing that you're getting reps at doing it and then sun one day suddenly they change the the environment and they think that all that practice and that muscle that they've basically developed and practiced and repped daily will just go away and this new muscle called contentness contentness and happiness will appear because the money the the bank balance in your you know bank of america account has changed no way right and so I would actually say it's the opposite if you wanna change that feeling it's not the money it's you have to find a way on a daily basis to practice having that feeling you wanna you wanna feel happy you gotta practice happy you wanna feel content and peaceful you gotta practice content and peaceful you gotta practice that more than you're practicing anxiety and fear and stress and all these other things and so for anybody out there who's listening sam is absolutely right your feeling is not gonna change but I don't think it's because of these like deeply rooted psychological and historical reasons a simpler example a simpler explanation might be that I've really just gotten a lot of reps practicing one thing and therefore that's easy and familiar and habitual for me and I gotta start practicing the other the same thing happened when we sold to milk road I talked to ben and I was like ben how does it feel for your first kind of big exit for you and he's like honestly it doesn't feel like I I'm kinda disappointed like it doesn't feel like very much like it doesn't I don't feel that much and I go he's like maybe it's because maybe if the number was bigger maybe this right he started going down that path and I was like no dude it's because you're trying to feel like this kind of victorious joy how many days out of the year the last 365 days did you feel that like 0 did you let yourself feel that 0 and so what did you think all of a sudden today you're gonna turn on and be really good at feeling that like no dude it's practice like you if you wanna feel that we gotta do that regularly so that that muscle's there and did | |
Sam Parr | you did you come up with this theory on your own or did you steal | |
Shaan Puri | It was at an event with Tony Robbins that I learned about something similar he calls "your emotional home." He says, "Everybody's got an emotional home." He goes on to explain, "Look, watch this. Raise your hand if you're someone who sometimes gets a little pissed off." Everybody raises their hand. Then he says, "Raise your hand if sometimes you are just super silly, having fun, being playful." Again, everybody raises their hand.
He emphasizes that we are capable of both emotions. We are not just "an asshole" or "a super nice, easygoing guy." We all fluctuate. However, he points out that it is true we have an emotional home. It's the place where we spend the most time.
He explains, "If your emotional home is that you are stressed out, it doesn't matter if you sell your company for $1,000,000,000. If you grinded for seven years and were stressed all the time, you're not just going to become a different person all of a sudden." That's because that's your emotional home.
The good news is that you can move it. You can change it if you practice. He says, "You don't want to wait for things to happen to feel a certain way. You want to have it on call, so you can change the way you feel that fast."
He challenges the audience, "Can you do that? Can you change the way you feel that fast?" A lot of people feel that Tony Robbins is almost manipulative during his events because he literally is manipulating the way you feel. He shows you that you can change your emotions—from focused to jubilant, to zen and calm, to reflective, to motivated and inspired—in just a 30-minute span, simply by the way he prompts you.
The trick, of course, is to learn to do that yourself, so that you are in control of your own mood. You become the master of your own mood. This became a big focus for me after that event. That was my big takeaway, and I started practicing it for the last six or seven years.
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Sam Parr | I wish you had come up with that on your own because you don't realize it, but one of the big three in psychology... you know, there's Sigmund Freud, and then there are two other guys who are considered the godfathers of 19th-century psychoanalysis and all this stuff.
One of the guys is Alfred Adler, and he's got a book called *The Courage to Be Disliked* that's quite good. What you are saying is exactly in parallel with what he has said about happiness. It's like, well, you're anxious because you're choosing to be anxious, and you're not choosing to do this other thing.
He's got this whole book on it, but you didn't realize it. You've just discovered, relatively, you know, the theory of relativity, just like Albert Einstein. You didn't even know about it, so you're kind of like one of the big three.
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Shaan Puri | he's the other guy he sounds like a smart guy yeah | |
Sam Parr | like I want | |
Shaan Puri | this out of us I'm gonna go check the guy | |
Sam Parr | so so so that's you alright where do we go from here is that it | |
Shaan Puri |
That's it. I think we wrap it up. Thank you to everybody for listening. You know, those views ain't gonna view themselves. It's because of you guys. But you know, we just talked about wanting more. Sam, are you satisfied? Do we have enough subscribers, would you say?
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Sam Parr |
We only have 360 [subscribers]. You know, MrBeast has 100,000,000. We're nothing, we're losers. I'm anxious about this.
So, if you've enjoyed this episode, if you enjoyed any of our episodes:
- Subscribe on YouTube
- Go to Spotify
- Go to Apple Podcasts
... and subscribe all the way.
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Shaan Puri | Therapy and stop wanting this, or you could just click the button and make us feel happy. Which one? Save us years of therapy and just click subscribe.
Just say "you're welcome" in the comments, and we know when you say "you're welcome," it's because you saved us years of therapy. You just gave us what we wanted instead.
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Sam Parr | alright that's the pod |